Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.3.16-17 Prabhupada: yam vai na gobhir manasasubhir va hrda gira vasu-bhrto vicaksate atmanam antar-hrdi santam atmanam (sic:) yac-caksur yathaivakrtayantah param Tasmad…, tan-maya-mohitatvad na jananti ity uktam avisayatvac ca tasya ity aha. So Sridhara Swami give his comment that “Those who are,” I mean to say, “involved with the material energy…” This material energy means the three modes of passion, ignorance, and goodness. Tan-maya-mohita. This is the moha. Moha means illusion. Anyone who is contaminated by these three qualities of maya, he is supposed to be involved in mayika, or material existence. Tan-maya-mohitatvad na jananti: “And anyone who is involved with the material qualities of this external energy, they cannot understand what is God.” It is not possible. Avisayatvac ca. This is not their subject matter at all. The subject matter for them different. Therefore we see. They are becoming educated, scientists, philosophers, but they do not understand what is God. Avisayatvac ca. It is not their subject matter. That I repeatedly say, that one who is not a devotee of Krsna, it is, Bhagavad-gita is not a subject matter for their study, what to speak of commenting upon it? He has no business to comment on Bhagavad-gita because it is not their subject matter. This should be very distinctly understood. There is a Bengali parable, adhara vyapari yahare khabola (?). Adhara vyapari, a merchant dealing in ginger, so he is taking information, “What about the shipping one…, just like one cartload or one ship full of ginger?” So adhare vyapari means he has not very large quantity to sell. Ginger is taken, very little quantity. So ginger merchant, if he has got stock, say, one bag, it will take months together to sell it. And if he thinks that “I will stock hundreds of bags,” it is useless for him. That is not his subject. But one who sells rice or wheat, that is in great demand. That he can stock and talk of large shipment. Similarly, those who are already engrossed in material qualities, the science of God is not their subject matter at all. So that is the test. Just like who shall be the guru? Whose subject matter is only Krsna or God, he shall be guru, not an amateur man. He is doing some other business, and in some pastime he makes a guru business. No, that is not their subject matter. The subject matter is different. Therefore Sridhara Swami says, avisayatvac ca tasya ity aha, gobhir indriyair na cittena: “Because the subject matter is not for them, however they may exercise their senses, gobhih…” Go means indra (indriya). Simply by exercising… Just like there are so many yogis. They exercise their senses only—yama, niyama, pranayama—senses. But it is not their subject matter to understand God. They may show some jugglery or some gymnastic, wonderful, or they may get some material perfection, anima… The eight kinds of perfection in yoga system… One can become very small. Just like there was a trailinga swami in Benares. He was staying naked on the street, and the police objected, and he was put into police custody. He again came out. That means people became more devoted to him. But still… This is a perfection by the gymnastic of yoga process, but that does not mean he knows God. That does not mean. There was another yogi in Benares. Anyone who would come to him, immediately in a pot he will present two rasagulla. And after eating two rasagulla, the man will be captivated, and big man, manager of bank and this and that, and they… They become captivated. He does not know “What he has given me? Two rasagulla. Say, two annas, or four annas at most.” So, but they become captivated: “Oh, here is a yogi. He can manufacture immediately.” In Calcutta I was passing in a street, Cornwallis Street, and there was some crowd, and I entered that crowd, long ago, when I was young man. So I saw that he was a Muhammadan (indistinct). He was giving everyone some pieces of grass, straw. So he gave me one. So I saw it is raisin, kismis. You see? So I immediate threw it away and went away. So some yogi can show. He’ll press his beads, and there milk will come. So there are so many yogic fantasies. But that does not mean that he knows God. Or a great philosopher like Dr. Radhakrishnan, that does not mean he knows God. Therefore Brahma-samhita says, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam adyam purana-purusam nava-yauvanam ca vedesu durlabha [Bs. 5.33] Simply by Vedic knowledge it is very difficult to understand what is Govinda. Vedesu durlabha adurlabha atma-bhaktau: “But He is available from His pure devotees.” So here the same thing is stated by Yamaraja. Yam vai na gobhir manasasubhir va hrda gira vasu-bhrto vicaksate. So atmanam jivanam atmanam drastaram yam akrtayah rupani caksur yatha karma-bhutam na jananti tatah param akrtinam prakasakam na hi pramata-pramanasya visaya iti. Bhala. So our bhakti process is not to try to see God personally. Just like the karmis, they challenge, “If we can see eye to eye, God?” No. That is not our process. Our process is different. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches us, aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam marma-hatam karotu va adarsanan. Every devotee likes to see, but Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches that “Even if You make me broken-hearted, not being seen for life or perpetually, it doesn’t matter. Still, You are my worshipable Lord.” That is pure devotee. Just like there is a song, “My dear Lord, please appear before me, dancing with Your flute.” This is not devotion. This is not devotion. People may think, “Oh, how great devotee he is, asking Krsna to come before him dancing.” That means ordering Krsna. A devotee does not order anything or ask anything from Krsna, but he loves only. That is the pure love. That is the teaching of Lord Caitanya. Aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam: “Either You embrace me or You trample down, You give me all kinds of miserable life and You break my heart, not being seen by me…” This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s prayer in His ecstasy of Radharani. So that is wanted. So we should not try to see God. Then we’ll be baffled. Sometimes if, trying, trying, if I baffled—I cannot see—then I’ll conclude, “There is no God. If there was God, I prayed so much and He did not appear before me. Oh, this… It is all humbug.” You see? So pure devotion means anyabhilasita-sunyam [BRS 1.1.11], without any desire. Simply one desire, that “How I shall be able to satisfy Krsna?” That registered… Where is Mr. Singh? He was saying that “I shall do my duty, and I do not want to know whether Krsna is pleased or not pleased.” This is not bhakti. This is not bhakti. Bhakti means the bhakta’s only business is to understand whether Krsna is pleased by my activity. That is bhakta’s business. But because they have no relationship with God, they are puzzled that “How I shall understand whether Krsna is pleased or not?” They are puzzled. That answer is given by Visvanatha Cakravarti, yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah: ** “If you please the representative of Krsna, guru, then He is pleased.” Yasya prasadad bhagavat… Otherwise you cannot understand whether Krsna is pleased or not. You can understand also, because if you follow the Krsna’s instructions… Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. If one is completely surrendered to Krsna and he has no other business than to serve Him, then he can understand that “I am now… Even if I do not understand whether Krsna is pleased or not, by the formula I can understand that because I am fully surrendered—I have no other business—then Krsna must be pleased.” That is the… And practical. Krsna appears in two ways. He appears as antaryami, the Supersoul within himself, within oneself, and He appears as the spiritual master, externally. Caitya-guru and diksa-guru. Caitya-guru… As caitya-guru, as the supreme spiritual master, He is in everyone’s heart. And His representative… In order to help externally the sincere person, He sends the spiritual master. Therefore the spiritual master from outside and the caitya-guru from inside, they are helping. The Supreme Personality is helping a devotee, a real, serious devotee two ways: from within, from without. The Caitanya-caritamrta therefore says that krsnera prakasa, manifestation of Krsna, a spiritual master. And Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado yasya aprasadad na gatih kuto ’pi: ** “If I can satisfy my spiritual master, then I understand that Krsna is satisfied. And if I cannot satisfy my spiritual master, then I have no other way to approach Krsna.” These songs we sing every day. So my Guru Maharaja used to say that “Instead of seeing Krsna, you serve so faithfully that Krsna will see you.” That should be the process. Krsna is omnipresent. He can see you, He can understand you, what are doing. So we have to execute devotional service in such a faithful way that Krsna will see us. Then you will be successful. “Don’t try to see Krsna. Try to become seen by Krsna.” That was my Guru Maharaja’s instruction. Caksur yathaiva krtayaiva antah-param. Tasyatma-tantrasya harer ahisituh parasya mayadhipater mahatmanah. Evam bhutah paramesvarah mad-anyad astiti. Now, Yamaraja says that “I have got a master like that.” The Yamaraja has anubhuti. Therefore he describes what is the nature, characteristics, of his master. Yamaraja also does not say that “I have seen my master.” But he still accepts that there is a master. “I am not all in all.” Never said… In these slokas we do not find anywhere Yamaraja says that “I have seen Him.” It is very common thing. Now the government is going on. Not that everyone has seen the president or the king, but still, the government is so nicely managed that everyone knows that there is an executive head. So there is no question of this villainy that “There is no God. I do not believe in God. God is dead,” or “Everyone is God.” Not like that. tasyatma-tantrasya harer ahisituh parasya mayadhipater mahatmanah prayena duta iha vai manoharas caranti tad-rupa-guna-svabhavah Now, Yamaraja says that, bhavaty evam bhuta anyam paramesvara ye punar asmad niduhsasya papinam raksita-vancha te ke tan aha tasyeti dvabhyam (?) So the Yamadutas inquired from Yamaraja, “Whether there is another controller than yourself?” So that he has described, that “There is supreme controller than myself.” Tasyeva rupam gunah prabhavah prabhavaya svabhavam bhakta-vatsalyadi yesam. So that tasyatma-tantrasya harer ahisituh parasya mayadhipater mahatmanah, so he is informing that “There are Visnudutas also. They are…” Visnuduta means devotees, the devotee of Lord Visnu. “They are also…” Just, the Yamadutas, they are also traveling everywhere to find out… Not to find out. Everyone is sinful. “Similarly, there are Visnudutas also.” That is the information. “They are also seeing, inspecting what kinds of actions we are actually performing.” Prayena duta iha vai manoharah. Because the Visnudutas came to take away Ajamila, so they were surprised, that “Who these persons, the great personalities, were there?” So now Yamaraja is explaining that “These manohara, these beautiful personalities who appeared, they are Visnudutas. Just like you are Yamadutas, similarly, they are Visnudutas.” Prayena duta iha vai manoharas caranti. Caranti: “They also travel all over the universe.” And what is their qualities? Tad-rupa-guna-svabhavah: “Exactly looking like Visnu, four hands with sankha-cakra-gada-padma, tad-rupa.” This is called liberation of possessing the similar feature of the body as Lord Visnu. Tad-rupa-guna-svabhavah. And their qualities are also the same. And svabhavah, and nature, character, is also the same. That is oneness. When one is liberated in his original spiritual feature, he becomes equal, just like in svarupa, in form; guna, in quality; and svabhavah, characteristics, exactly like Visnu. Prayena duta: “It is very difficult to recognize.” Just like in this world also, if the president or the king comes in common dress, you cannot understand who is president, who is king and who is a common man. Similarly, in the Vaikuntha world also the inhabitants of Vaikuntha, they have got the same feature of the body, same qualities, and same characteristics. This is described here. Try to understand. What is that? Revatinandana: I’m feeling a little chilly. Prabhupada: Prayena duta iha vai manoharas caranti tad-rupa-guna-svabhavah, bhutani visnoh sura-pujitani: “These Visnudutas, they are not only worshipable by common men, but they are worshipable by the demigods.” Sura-pujitani. Sura means the demigods. Pujitani: “They are worshiped.” Bhutani visnoh: “Those who are associates of Lord Visnu…” So there is no question of impersonalism. This oneness with God and the living entity, these are the oneness, that they attain the same quality, the same characteristics, the same feature of the body. That is oneness. Not that they have no individuality. God has got individuality and His devotees or the living entities, even though not devotees, nondevotees, everyone has got individuality. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says that “I, you, and all these persons who have assembled here in the Battle of Kuruksetra, they existed in the past, they are existing at the present moment, and they will continue to exist in the future.” Now, where is the question of mixing together? They existed as they are existing now, and at the present moment they are existing as individuals, and in the past, they also existed as individuals, and the future, they will continue to exist as individuals. So there is no question of losing the individuality. That’s a theory only. No living entity loses his individuality even after liberation. They try to keep mixed up with others. Just like the sunshine is a combination of molecular parts, something shining. Is it not? Similarly, brahmajyoti is combination of the individual parts and parcels of God. But without individual activity they cannot stay in the brahmajyoti for long. Because everyone wants some individual activity. Just like we are sitting together now. After some hour, every one of us will feel what is our individual… Everyone will be engaged in his individual activity. Therefore, according to Bhagavat-siddhanta, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanti [SB 10.2.32]. The individual soul who simply tries to merge into the effulgence, Brahman effulgence… That position is attained after many, many years’ austerity and penances. Aruhya krcchrena. Krcchrena means with great trouble and difficulty one is elevated to that position, merging into the impersonal brahmajyoti. Aruhya krcchrena param padam [SB 10.2.32]. That is called param padam. But again says, patanty adhah: “But they still, again they are prone to fall down.” Why they fall down? Anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah: “Because they do not care for Your lotus feet.” That has been practically experienced. In our country many many, very, very big swamis, they attain perfection and realize that he is Brahman. But after a time again comes down to this material field of worker, opening hospital, schools. So these Mayavadi sannyasis, they say that the world is false. Brahma satyam jagan mithya. So if the world is false, then why they come down to open schools and colleges and hospitals? That means they could not stay in the Brahman atmosphere for want of activity. Therefore this devotional service is Brahman activity. One can stay. Without this Brahman activity, even one is elevated to the Brahman position, he falls down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adho anadrta-yusmad-anghrayah [SB 10.2.32]. They are not very much inclined or decline practically to accept this devotional service. The Mayavadis, they say this devotional service, this arcana—sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam [SB 7.5.23]—they take it as a means to merge into the Brahman effulgence. They do not understand that this is the perpetual engagement of a devotee. Nitya-yukta upasate. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said that devotees, they are eternally engaged in devotional service. Eternally means after liberation, not that after liberation the whole thing is changed. No. The process is so transcendental that the devotees, they are serving the Supreme Personality of Godhead, even when he is conditioned… A devotee is not conditioned. Even accepting he is conditioned, but his engagement in the liberation stage does not change. The same condition goes on, the same worshiping, his chanting. sravanam kirtanam visnoh smaranam pada-sevanam arcanam vandanam dasyam sakhyam atma-nivedanam [SB 7.5.23] bhutani visnoh sura-pujitani durdarsa-lingani mahadbhutani raksanti tad-bhaktimatah parebhyo mattas ca martyan atha sarvatas ca Very nice verse. The Yamaraja says that “These bhutani visnoh, visnu-bhutani, the Vaisnava, the Visnudutas, they are worshiped by the demigods. Anywhere they go, they are worshiped.” They are worshipable, Vaisnava. As God is worshipable, similarly, the Vaisnava, or the God’s servant, they are also worshipable. And Krsna says, mad bhakta-pujabhyadhika [SB 11.19.21] So, “Anyone who worships My devotee, he renders devotional service better than by worshiping Me directly.” So therefore He says in another…, acaryam mam vijaniyat navamanyeta karhicit na martya-buddhyasuyeta sarva-deva-mayo guruh There is another version that Krsna says… These are stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam while He was talking with Uddhava, Eleventh Canto. Just like Krsna had talks with Arjuna, which is known as Arjuna-gita, similarly, He had talks with Uddhava, another devotee. That is known as Uddhava-gita. So in that Uddhava-gita these statements are there, that acaryam mam vijaniyat navamanyeta karhicit: “Acarya should be known as good as God.” That is confirmed in Visvanatha Cakravarti… Saksad dharitvena samasta-sastraih. He also refers to the sastra, not that he is opining by his own intellect. No. That is the speciality of learned scholars and devotees. They should immediately give evidence from the sastra. Visvanatha Cakravarti said that “Guru is as good as God by the verdict of the sastra.” Saksad dharitvena samasta-sastraih. And Krsna says, acaryam mam vijaniyat: “Acarya should be known as good as Myself.” Navamanyeta karhicit: “Never become disobedient to acarya.” Na martya buddhyasuyeta: “Never be envious of the acarya, considering him to be an ordinary person.” Navamanyeta karhicit. Sarva-deva-mayo. By worshiping acarya… And Bhagavad-gita it is said, acaryopasanam. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. These things are there. So these, I mean to say, assistants and associates of Visnu, Visnuduta, it is stated, Yamaraja says… Yamaraja is Mahajana, therefore we have to accept. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. The Yamaraja says that bhutani visnoh sura-pujitani durdarsa-lingani mahadbhutani. Durdarsa. It is very difficult to find out them, because in our experience within this material world, perhaps only Brahma has four hands, and Visnu has four hands, and sometimes Lord Siva has also four hands because they are biggest of all the demigods. But ordinary living entities, hardly one can find out a person with four hands. Therefore it is said here, durdarsa lingani: “They are very rarely to be seen.” But mahadbhutani: “They are wonderful.” Mahadbhutani. Raksanti tad-bhaktimatah parebhyo. And what is their business? The business is raksanti tad-bhakta. “Their business is to give protection to the devotees of the Lord.” Raksanti tad-bhakta matah parebhyo. Just like Ajamila was attacked by the Yamadutas. Immediately they came and protected. Parebhyo. Raksanti tad-bhaktimatah parebhyo mattas ca martyan atha sarvatas ca: “And they give protection from my jurisdiction. I may be sometimes mistaken to go to a person who is completely a devotee. Therefore they are required, ‘No, you cannot come here.’ ” These things are stated. visnu-bhutani bhutya durdarsani drastum apy asankhyani rupani yesam tani bhakti-mata visnu-bhaktan parebhyah satrubhyah martyasya There is no use to become envious of a devotee because a devotee, a pure devotee, will always be protected by these Visnudutas as they have protected Ajamila. Parebhyo. Parebhyo, Sridhara Swamiji’s gives satru, enemies. In this world, although a devotee is ajata-satru, he does not do anything which will create enemy, but the nature of the world is that they will become envious. Any person, he has done no wrong to you, but he is making progress—his friends and his neighbors will be envious: “Oh, this man is becoming so successful.” So the nature of this world is envious, enviousness. Therefore, in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, in the beginning it is said, nirmatsaranam satam. Dharmah projjhita-kaitavo ’tra paramo nirmatsaranam: [SB 1.1.2] “This is understandable by persons who are freed from this quality of enviousness.” Here is a quality in the material world. Anyone who is here, he will be envious of his… Para utkarsa asahanam. They cannot tolerate that his friend or his brother is very much, I mean to say, advancing either material or spiritual. They cannot tolerate. This is the society. Therefore my Guru Maharaja used to say that “This is not the place for a gentleman to live,” because surrounded by envious persons, especially to the devotees. Especially when a man becomes devoted to the Lord, he creates… He does not create, but the atmosphere is such—many enemies. Just like Prahlada Maharaja. He was a five-years’-old boy only, child. His father became enemy because the only disqualification Prahlada Maharaja had, that he was a great devotee. His father became enemy, what to speak of others? Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said, taror api sahisnuna. You will have many enemies, many envious persons, when you become pure devotee, but you should tolerate. Taror api sahisnuna. Be tolerant just like a tree and be humble just like a grass. Trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna. Don’t be afraid of our enemies because Krsna will protect you, but in order to stop more misunderstanding, better become tolerant, as Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that… Envious persons, automatically… Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s time, Srivasa. Srivasa was chanting Hare Krsna mantra, and his neighborers became enemies. They wanted to insult him in so many ways. These are described in the Caitanya-caritamrta. So that is natural. But we should always remember that “Let there be enemies. Let there be envious persons. I will be protected by Krsna and His associates.” And even I am not so accustomed, so I should learn to tolerate. trnad api sunicena taror api sahisnuna amanina manadena kirtaniyah sada… Kirtaniyah. If you want to make advancement in the chanting process, then you should be tolerant than the tree and humbler than the grass. And anyone who hasn’t got any respect, give him all respect: “Oh, you are so wonderful,” and go on with your business, “Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare/ Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama…” (chuckles) That’s all. Thank you very much. (Hindi) So any other questions? Devotee (1): The Visnudutas, they had spiritual bodies, spiritual forms. Are they traveling through all the planets or only where there are devotees? Prabhupada: All the planets. Everywhere there are devotees. You are thinking that only in America there are devotees? (laughter) Devotee (1): No, I’m speaking particularly of the four-armed form described as… Particularly of those. Prabhupada: Yes. Visnudutas are looking exactly like Visnu. Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada, don’t the living entities on Brahmaloka have bodies like Lord Brahma? Prabhupada: Not exactly. Brahma is four-handed. Tamala Krsna: Oh, they don’t have… Hamsaduta: Prabhupada, you said that when a person changes original spiritual form, just like the Visnudutas, they have their four- handed form. Does that mean that they will never rise up to the state of associating with Krsna in two-handed form? What does it mean, “original form”? Prabhupada: Original form, two-handed. Hamsaduta: Two-handed. Prabhupada: Yes. Hamsaduta: So that four-handed form is not complete perfection of Krsna consciousness? Prabhupada: No. There is perfection everywhere in the spiritual world, but it is a question of variety, taste. When you take rasagulla, don’t take kachori, that does not mean kachori is not perfect. It is a question of taste. Somebody likes kachori, somebody likes rasagulla. Not that kachori is inferior to rasagulla; rasagulla is inferior to kachori. Hamsaduta: So that means if someone is situated in that svarupa… Prabhupada: Yes. Everything is svarupa. Everything is svarupa. Hamsaduta: Suppose someone is situated as Visnuduta. He may change his taste. Prabhupada: Why he shall change it? Hamsaduta: He may get a taste for associating with Krsna. Prabhupada: The change is taking place in this material world. There all tastes are fixed up, rasa, eternal, eternal rasa. Every one of us has a different taste of associating with Krsna, and that will be realized when one is liberated. Hamsaduta: So that’s fixed already. Prabhupada: Yes. When you are liberated, you will understand in which way you are related with Krsna. That is called svarupa-siddhi. But that is attained when you are actually perfect in devotional service. Just like in our family, we enjoy different rasas. We have got one kind of relationship with wife, one kind of relationship with sons and daughters, one kind of relation with friends, one kind of relationship with servants, one kind of relationship with property. So similarly, Krsna… The whole creation is His family, and He has got relationship in that way. So why the son will change his relationship into husband and wife? Hamsaduta: I see. Prabhupada: Yes. Because every relationship is very palatable. The gentleman, the head of the family, his relationship with wife and his relationship with servant is as much palatable. Maybe some degradation, but it is palatable. There is no question of changing. Not that “I am tasting this rasa at the present moment. Then I will get better rasas.” No, that is not. Everyone thinks, “My rasa is the best.” Although there is comparative gradation, but everyone thinks. These things are explained in Caitanya-caritamrta. Why don’t you see? Hamsaduta: And Nectar of Devotion. Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone thinks, “My relationship with Krsna is the best.” Hamsaduta: So it’s not a matter of aspiring to some… Prabhupada: No, there is no question of aspiring, because he is already situated in the best of relationship with Krsna. Even the trees in Vrndavana, they want to serve Krsna silently in that way, supplying fruits and flowers. That is their ananda, everyone enjoying the supreme bliss. When Krsna comes, takes a flower or fruit, that is their enjoyment: “Oh…” Revatinandana: When Krsna doesn’t come, then they are feeling separation? Prabhupada: Yes, certainly. That is another bliss, to feel separation from Krsna. Everything, either you meet or you separate, the bliss is there. Crying for Krsna is better bliss. So as there are Yamadutas— they are arresting all the sinful persons—similarly, Visnudutas, they are always protecting the devotees. Narayana-parah sarve na kutascana bibhyati. Therefore those who are devotees, they are not afraid of anything because they know confidently that “Krsna is there.” That is one of the items of saranagati. Surrender means when… Unless one is convinced that “Krsna will give me protection,” so how he can surrender? There is no question of surrender. Avasya raksibe krsna vivasa-palana. Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said to be firmly convinced: “Then Krsna will give me all protection.” Therefore surrender is perfect. Anukulyasya sankalpah pratikulyam vivarjanam. Surrender means one should simply accept favorable service to Krsna and reject anything which is unfavorable, and then next is avasya raksibe krsna visvasa-palana: “And to be firmly convinced that ‘Krsna will give me all protection.’ ” Therefore, instead of “trying to protect myself,” a devotee should always remain dependent on Krsna. That is saranagati. And to consider oneself that “Now I am in the association of Krsna,” these are different items of saranagati. So this Krsna consciousness movement is the best contribution to the human society. There is no comparison with this movement, any other welfare activity of the whole world. There is no comparison. Can you suggest any better welfare activities than this Krsna consciousness, that “Here is another item which is better than Krsna consciousness?” What is that? Who will suggest? Hamsaduta: Nobody. Prabhupada: No? Hamsaduta: No one. Prabhupada: (Hindi) There cannot be. As Krsna says, mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg. 7.7], similarly… Nanyat: “There is no better personality or higher personality than Me,” Krsna says. Similarly, krsna-bhakti also, in the, at the same position, there is no more higher activity than Krsna consciousness. Guest (1): Visnu and Krsna-duta is same. Visnu and Krsna-duta is same thing or…? Prabhupada: Yes. Guna-svabhava. It is stated there. But the same means, does not mean that Visnu, the associate have forgotten Visnu’s position. No. Although everything is there, same, still the Visnudutas know that “Visnu is master; we are servant.” But there are many instances in higher official circles. Let’s say a high court. All the justices are of the same caliber, but still, all the other justices accept chief justice. They are considered subordinate. Is it not? Although their position, facilities, all the same, still, the chief justice position and the other judges’ position is little different. (pause) You are little bit late. We began at five-thirty. Yes. The class… We began our arati at five, and after arati we began class at five-thirty. So along with our temple, we shall have to construct some residential quarters for the students. And the students will remain with us. There will be no charge for their fooding or lodging. They will remain as brahmacari and go to their schools, colleges. Is that idea all right? Not only students, anyone who will remain with us, there is no charge for boarding and lodging. Guest (2): Krsna consciousness leads to the Supreme. Prabhupada: That is the highest perfection. Guest (2): That is… When your Divine Grace asked, I told that “Krsna consciousness is the beginning. That leads to Krsna-prema.” Then, naturally, Krsna-prema should be superior to Krsna consciousness. Prabhupada: No superior. Guest (2): Because that is means, and that is the end. Prabhupada: Just like the mango has got a different feature when it is not ripened, and the same mango, when it is ripened, it has got a different feature. That’s all. The process is to the ripened stage. It is… But all the same, it is a mango. It’s a mango. Guest (2): That is what I thought of the… Prabhupada: Yes. It is no other thing than mango. Bhakti is always there, either in the perfectional stage or in the beginning stage. The same example: mango is mango, but unripened stage, it has got a different feature, and ripened stage has a different feature. Devotee (2): Paripakur(?). Prabhupada: Paripakur. Devotee (1): But in the ripened stage it is more succulent. Prabhupada: Sometimes unripened stage also, it is very palatable. So many are charged(?). (laughter) You see? It is so nice, mango is so nice, either ripened or unripened, it is always good. And that goodness may be tasted by different types of men. But mango is always good. Mango is mango, phala ka raja, “King of all fruits.” So devotional service is king of all processes of God realization. That is its position always, either ripened or unripe. It doesn’t matter. Devotee (1): This mango you can taste both ways, both in the beginning and in the end. Prabhupada: That is maybe your taste, but others may… (laughter) Devotee (1): I mean if Krsna consciousness leads to Krsna-prema, then it must, must be a different enjoyment, superior… Prabhupada: Generally Krsna-prema is the highest stage. Guest (2): Is it right to say that Krsna-prema is the perfection of Krsna consciousness? Prabhupada: Perfect is always. That is the highest stage. That we cannot relish. Just… All the rasas in relationship with Krsna is perfect. But according to different devotees’ taste… That I already told. Everyone says, “My relationship with Krsna is the best.” Everyone thinks. But it is for the outsider to consider that “This stage, conjugal love, this is better than the Krsna’s relationship with His servants or with the trees and…” That is our calculation. But in the Krsna field… That is called Absolute. Every taste is as good than the other. That is oneness, Absolute. Hamsaduta: So Prabhupada, a neophyte devotee, he may think it might be very nice to be Krsna’s friend, but he may actually be a blade of grass and he’ll be fully satisfied when he comes to that stage. Prabhupada: No. If he thinks like that, then he should cultivate that knowledge in that way. Yes. That is described in The Nectar of Devotion and Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Hamsaduta: But that may not be his actual position. It may be something else. Prabhupada: No. But when, at the time of devotional service, if such impetuses come, that means he has got such relation. It is to be developed. That’s all. That means the actual relationship with Krsna is coming out gradually. It is being developed. So one has to develop it, following the footsteps of the Krsna’s friends in Vrndavana. These are described here. Yes. Not directly. No. You cannot say that “I have become Sudama.” No. You have to follow the footsteps of Sudama. “I have become mother Yasoda.” No. You have to follow the footsteps of mother Yasoda. That is real position. And as soon as you say, “I am Yasoda. I am Su…,” then it is as good as the Mayavadis say, “I am God.” You see? So dasa-dasanudasa. That process should be followed. Devotee (2): Dasa-dasanudasa. Hamsaduta: Suppose someone is satisfied simply being related with the spiritual master. Prabhupada: That is everyone’s business. Everyone’s business. That is not a particular taste. That is the duty of all devotees. Revatinandana: Srila Prabhupada, you are like Radha-Krsna-duta. You are a devotee of Radha-Krsna. Prabhupada: I am not Radha-Krsna-duta. My Guru Maharaja is Radha-Krsna… Revatinandana: Well, we would say that you were. Prabhupada: No, no, no. My Guru Maharaja is Radha-Krsna-duta. I am simply trying to carry his order. That’s all. I am not Radha-Krsna-duta. Revatinandana: But we have become your followers. Prabhupada: That is your duty. Dasanudasa. That is the process. Revatinandana: Somebody else might become a follower of a devotee of Laksmi-Narayana. Prabhupada: It is not that I am directly connected with Krsna or Visnu. I am directly connected with my spiritual master, and my business is to carry out his order. That’s all. If I can do that well, that is my purpose. That’s all. Revatinandana: But if somebody else may become, say, a devotee of Laksmi-Narayana, then is it to be understood that he, then, because he has become devotee of a follower of Laksmi-Narayana, he may come to associate with Laksmi-Narayana? Prabhupada: No, no. It is not that. A devotee is not particular follower of Laksmi-Narayana, not of Krsna. One who is pure devotee, he knows both the line is as perfect. He may be, a spiritual master is devotee of Radha-Krsna, but his disciple may be a devotee of Laksmi-Narayana. It does not hamper. It does not matter, because They are the same. Ramadi-murtisu kala-niyamena tisthan [Bs. 5.39]. They are all one. When we say “Krsna,” He includes everyone— Rama, Narayana, Visnu, everyone. So let us… (end)
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Gorakhpur, February 10, 1971