Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: …brahmana. Devotee (1): Yes. Prabhupada: But generally, unless they are very highly elevated… [break] …to elevate them, harijanas. Devotee (1): Harijanas. Prabhupada: But he did not know how to make them harijana. He was politically trying. These are old garments? Devotee (1): No. New. Prabhupada: They are selling new. Devotee (1): Yes. This is a very well attended market, this area. Prabhupada: Yes. I can see. When the market opens? Devotee (1): About 9 o’clock or 9:30. Then they open until 1(2):30 and close all afternoon. All over Jakarta they close all afternoon and at five o’clock then they open… Prabhupada: And go then up to 10:00. Devotee (1): 8:30. Devotee (2): It’s a good system in a country with this weather, very hot in the afternoon, to close the business in the mid-day. (indistinct) Devotee (1): :Some type of military school. Looks like naval. Prabhupada: this road is very nice. (indistinct) What is meaning of toko? Devotee (1): Toko means store, shop. Devotee (2): If they say bookstore, they say toko booko. Prabhupada: Toko simara? Toko simara? Devotee (1): Maybe that’s one particular store. Usually they say what type of store. Toko sapater means shoe store. Prabhupada: Sapato? Devotee (1): Sapatu. Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Sapato. Devotee (1): Toko bunga means flower store. They usually have the category. (pause) Prabhupada: These are wholesale merchants? Devotee (1): It appears to be. Yes. Prabhupada: It is just like Indian market. Devotee (1): Oh. Prabhupada: In India also… Similarly, I’ve seen Philippines also like this. Japanese almost like this. Devotee (1): Yes. I was there also. Prabhupada: Tokyo. Devotee (1): In Malaysia also (indistinct). Prabhupada: These are all oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bharata-varsa. That we get from history, Mahabharata. This planet name is Bharata-varsa. Devotee (2): After King Pariksit, then it divided up, that soon after? Prabhupada: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because… Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, “Why there should not be meat-eating?” But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the…, what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than sudra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it. But when the Mohammedans, that we will be on equal right, they, there is a (indistinct). Devotee (1): So there’s no spiritual motive. Prabhupada: Later on it became political, because as soon as the spiritual power, culture become diminished, the whole thing became material. So people wanted material advantage, so separated from Vedic culture. Just like Buddhists. Buddhism was a Hindu culture. But Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal sacrifice. In the Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended under certain conditions. He even denied that, “No that also cannot be done.” So therefore they are separate from Vedic culture. After all these, all these religious systems— Mohammedanism, Jewism, then Christianism, Buddhism—they are at a stage not more than 2,000 years. And before 2,000 years, what was the culture? Devotee (1): The Christians here, get money from America. In Bali, where there’s many Hindus live, they convert many people by saying, “If you become a Christian, you’ll have good economy with us.” Prabhupada: And that is the Christian propaganda. Devotee (1): Same in Madras. Prabhupada: In India, everywhere. They cannot attract people by their philosophy. It is show money, “Yes, come on, take money.” (pause) Hong Kong also. [break] Very, many meat shops. Rather this vegetable,… Devotee (1): It’s expensive. Prabhupada: Eh? Devotee (1): It costs a lot of money. Meat is more expensive to eat. Actually, most people, mostly they eat vegetables because it is available. But there’s much fish. There’s much fish and they carry around in the streets everywhere. Devotee (2): In the Eastern countries usually people eat little bits of meat but they’re vegetable. It’s only in the West that they eat steak. But in every restaurant, they all have meat, much chicken also. They raise chickens. (pause) Devotee (1): Tomorrow morning we have asked some Indian community leaders to come about 7 o’clock, because they want to be requested by you to do something to help make a temple or what you like. But they… Apparently they feel unhappy because we have not met with the leaders and asked them to help. Prabhupada: Why should I put the question? They should first of all. They should come forward. Devotee (1): Well, actually that meeting with the Indians they wanted you to eat some prasadam in the room, and come inside, and request, and ask you like that. Prabhupada: No, no. I cannot do that. Devotee (1): That was before that night they want… I think… Devotee (2): No, he doesn’t understand… Devotee (1): The night that, the first gathering at the Indian man’s home, they all wanted to meet with you then but Amogha didn’t know that. They were planning to come in the room and offer their services. But there was some mix-up, and they didn’t understand. They thought they had been cut off. Devotee (2): They told me they wanted you to go in the room for prasadam. But they wanted a meeting and they didn’t tell me. I didn’t know. Prabhupada: I can request them. But if they deny that will be insult for me. Therefore I do not like to request them. That will be not good for them, if I request and then they deny, or they do not do. That is not that will be good for them. It is better not to request. That will be offense, if they deny. Or if they did not carry out my order, then it will be offense. Why should they put themselves in such risk? Generally it is the duty of the householder to offer, “Sir, what can I do for you?” Then I can request. But if, as a beggar, I request them and they deny, then that will be great offense for them. That will not good for them. Devotee (2): (indistinct) Devotee (1): We are almost there. Prabhupada: So you wanted to secure place here? Devotee (1): Yes. They have a house in this area, but it is a bit far from the center of town. Prabhupada: Never mind. It is good quarter, you can take it. Devotee (1): O.K. It is about one mile more though. Prabhupada: That doesn’t matter. Devotee (1): O.K. Prabhupada: This is also a center. It is congested. Devotee (1): Yes. It is near a bus station also. Prabhupada: Oh. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
March 1, 1973, Jakarta