Morning Walk Conversation Svarupa Damodara: Srila Prabhupada, I was going to ask is there any difference between acintya-sakti and mystic yoga power? Prabhupada: They call it mystic. Svarupa Damodara: The same? Prabhupada: Yes. Mystic yogic power means the same acintya-sakti, dormant potency which is within everyone. That can be awakened. The same example, as I have given, that everyone has got the potency to swim, but it has to be practiced. I cannot swim. For me, if one is swimming, it is inconceivable power. But I have got also that power. By practice, it has to be awakened. Svarupa Damodara: That is a yogic process. Prabhupada: That is yogic process. Real yogic process is to find out Paramatma, but side by side many other dormant powers become awakened. Another example, that tree is producing chemicals. So every living entity has got dormant potencies, more or less. So God, Krsna, is the supreme living entity; therefore He has the full potency. God means full, complete. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. The best living entity, that is God. (pause) Is there any difficulty to understand the best living entity? Svarupa Damodara: The best living entity? Prabhupada: Yes. Svarupa Damodara: No. Prabhupada: Yes. So that best living entity is God. Isvarah paramah krsnah [Bs. 5.1]. That means the best controller, the supreme controller. Just like this man is controlling his dog, and that man is controlled by somebody else. In his office or where he works, he is controlled by his boss. And the dog is controlling the cat, the cat is controlling rat. In this way, one after another, there are controllers. I control you, he controls me, another controls him. In this way, you go on searching. When you find out somebody who controls but is not controlled by anyone, He is God. Where is the difficulty to understand? Everyone here we see that although a person is controller, at the same time he is controlled. Therefore the ideal living entity is, he controls but he is not controlled by others. That is supreme. Svarupa Damodara: So the supreme living entity… Prabhupada: He is God. He is living entity, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam. That is the Vedic version. Svarupa Damodara: So he doesn’t have to practice yogic power. Prabhupada: Yes. Because He is most perfect, He hasn’t got to practice. Just like the fish hasn’t got to practice how to live within the water, natural. Svabhaviki. It is called svabhaviki. Svabhaviki means by nature. If I want to fly in the sky, I will have to find out… Just like these boys are struggling with the waves with precaution, with so much practice, but a small fish, he doesn’t care for big, big waves; it will go against. So that small fish is more powerful than you in that respect. You are struggling against the waves, but the small fish goes against the waves without any difficulty. A small teeny… So many things. There are many superiors than you. The most superior is God. That’s all. That is the definition of God. You won’t find anybody superior than Him. Mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. There is no more any superior. That is God. Svarupa Damodara: When the living entity comes to the human platform, though he is conditioned, but still, by practice of yoga he can develop… Prabhupada: Some of the powers. Svarupa Damodara: …which cannot be developed by other living entities, like for example, fish. Prabhupada: Yes, yes. That distinction is there between one living entity and another. You have got some power, others have got another power. That’s tara-tama, means comparative and superlative… That is called tara-tama. (pause) There are varieties of potencies. All these potencies are visible, some in you, some in me, some in others. But all the varieties in full potency is in God. That is God. Not like this rascal incarnation of God. What is that, they came? Balaji? Svarupa Damodara: Guru Maharaja? Prabhupada: Yes. Not that. (laughs) That Krsna was requested by His teacher that, when He was offering that “Now I am going home. What shall I present to you, guru-daksina, giving to the guru?” So he requested, “Krsna, I have heard that You are so powerful. I lost my two sons. If you bring them…” So Krsna immediately went and brought them from within the ocean. This is God. Similarly, Devaki also requested Krsna that “Krsna, before Your birth I lost seven children. Your maternal uncle killed them. So I want… I have heard that You have returned back the sons of Your teacher. Why not my sons?” So He brought them. That is Krsna. Krsna went to Karanarnavasayi Visnu, penetrating the covering of this universe. Arjuna also went with Him. You know that? Svarupa Damodara: No. Krsna…? Prabhupada: Krsna went outside this universe, penetrating the sky. And Arjuna also accompanied Him. So it is Krsna’s power, He took His friend also. For ordinary human being it is not possible. But because Krsna said that “All right, I’ll take you.” So He took him. This covering, universal covering, there are seven layers: earth, water, fire, air… Each layer is ten times bigger than the one layer. Then you go to the spiritual world. Svarupa Damodara: Ten times bigger than each layer, it increases? Prabhupada: That one layer, the other layer is ten times bigger than the first layer, and the third are ten times bigger than that, ten times. In this way the whole universe is covered. What your scientists know? (laughs) Svarupa Damodara: Scientists say that there are different layers in the atmosphere. There is ionosphere and all those spheres. Prabhupada: So anyway, some ideas are there. But in Bhagavata it is all written. Svarupa Damodara: But they do not say that ten times. Prabhupada: What do they know? They do not know anything. Know something. (pause) Svarupa Damodara: So when we establish the theory of acintya-sakti… Prabhupada: Not only acintya-sakti. First of all you have to establish that life is not from matter. Matter is from life. Then they will be under your control. First of all you have to establish. Because their whole scientific advancement is going on on this basis, that life is from matter. But that is not the fact. Matter is from life, just the opposite. First of all you have to establish this. Why don’t you write a theory and get Nobel Prize? This is a fact. Now you have to prove only, by their scientific words. That’s all. Fact is this is. Are you convinced about this fact, that matter comes from life, not life comes from matter? Are you convinced or not? Otherwise how you can write? Svarupa Damodara: Yes, I am convinced. Prabhupada: Then why don’t you write in scientific language. All these material elements have come from life. Not that from material elements, life has come. No. That is not the fact. Krsna says mattah sarvam pravartate, “Everything from Me.” But Krsna is life. Aham sarvasya prabhavah, janmady asya yatah [Bhag. 1.1.1]. So… And bhumir apo ’nalo vayuh, bhinna me prakrtir astadha. So many informations are there. Me, “Mine,” “I am,” like that. So He is life. Our God is not dead. Our God is life, living, just like us, one of us. But He is more powerful. That’s it. Our God eats, sleeps, like us, just like we eat, sleep. The difference is that He eats, but He keeps the thing as it is. Krsna-Kanti: Om purnam adah purnam idam [Isopanisad, Invocation]. Prabhupada: Yes. And we eat, we finish. And we cannot again produce. God’s power is like that, that He eats, at the same, keeps everything intact for your eating. And I, if you give me a plate, I eat and there is nothing for you. That is difference. He also eats. Otherwise we are making all these bogus things, preparing so many nice things, offering to God? Is that false? Svarupa Damodara: No. Prabhupada: No. Purnasya purnam adaya purnam evavasisyate. He is so complete that one minus one equal to one. That is Absolute. Therefore Krsna is expanding Himself by so many energies, but Krsna is the same. There is no loss in His energy. Even in a human being or animal, he produces so many children. Just like hog—he produces at least one dozen children every year, but the hog is the same. If a hog can have so much power… And formerly one man used to produce hundreds of children. Wherefrom the potency comes? If a man is giving birth to hundreds of children, but still, he is the same man, wherefrom the potency comes? Why man? Even the fish, thousands of eggs they produce, and thousands of fishes are again produced. Wherefrom the potency comes? Svarupa Damodara: From the supreme controller. Prabhupada: Not supreme… He has got. From the supreme control…, yes, but directly we see that He has got so much potency. Everything is coming from Supreme; that’s a fact. But you can see hundreds and thousands of children produced by one single living entity. The snakes, they produce hundreds and thousands of children at a time. Fortunately, they eat their own children. Otherwise, the whole world would have been full of snakes only. Svarupa Damodara: They eat? Prabhupada: Yes. All animals, they eat their children. Svarupa Damodara: I have seen the eggs of snakes. They are small, this big, the eggs. Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna-Kanti: As the Kali-yuga advances, the human beings will eat their children too. Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Yes, yes. Just like in the last war, they ate stool, their own stool, out of hunger. So when there will be no foodstuff, they will kill their own children. Already they are killing, abortion. Not only abortion, children grows… By surgical instrument, they kill and they take out the child… They are already killing. Krsna-Kanti: When they take the pill, the birth control pill, are they killing their children too? Prabhupada: Killing means killing, what is that? What he is asking? I do not… Svarupa Damodara: He is asking that they take the pill, birth control pill. Prabhupada: No, no, that is one kind of killing. But directly killing. They, through some instrument, through the vagina, they kill, cut into pieces and get out. Living children. He is a scientist. That surgeon, he is a scientist, and doing this business. Svarupa Damodara: Yes, medical scientist. Prabhupada: Just see. He is paid for that killing. Svarupa Damodara: They lost the mercifulness, the quality… Prabhupada: What merciful? Animal has mercifulness. They are animals only. This modern civilization is producing animals. That’s it. Who was speaking that slaughterhouse they are giving some injection that the animal may not feel pain? Rascal, he is killing him, and he is humanitarian work, he may not feel killed. If I say, “I shall kill you, but you will not feel any pain. Come on.” This is their philosophy. They are killing, and they are saying, “Oh, may not be feeling any pain.” Such rascaldom is going on. I therefore do not talk with any rascal except my disciples. I know they are all rascals. Waste of time. All this rascaldom is coming out of that wrong notion that life is from matter, that wrong notion. Svarupa Damodara: That is why they say, “So long as I am alive, enjoy as much as you can.” Prabhupada: Yes, that is their philosophy. Hedonism. Svarupa Damodara: If they know that there is life after death or life started from life, then they would not be doing like this. Prabhupada: So many things you will change. (pause) And that is mystic power for me. Krsna-Kanti: Surfing? Prabhupada: Yes, because I do not know how to do it. Therefore it is mystic power. But the boy is going like this. (pause) Just like one of the yogis, she (he) walked over the river, crossed. So another old man said: “Oh this is only two paisa worth.” Why? “I will pay two paisa to this boatman. He will cross me there.” But to attain that power, he had to spend so many years for practicing. This is waste of time. If you can do it by paying two paisa or one ana to a boatman to cross the river, why should you for ten years or fifteen years practice this yoga, just to show a magic? Svarupa Damodara: Prabhupada, I remember an incident in Bombay. That was when I was in Calcutta about, a few years ago. There was a yogi. There was advertisement that he was going to walk on water. Prabhupada: No, that is possible. Svarupa Damodara: So I think it was about five hundred rupees per ticket. Prabhupada: Oh, just see. His real aim was to get some money. Svarupa Damodara: Radhakrishnan was there, the president. But ultimately, he could not walk. He fell down in the water. Prabhupada: And what about the money? Svarupa Damodara: I don’t know. He was beaten or something. They said he missed something. Prabhupada: That’s like you, chemist, just missing something, “In future we shall do it.” It is the same thing. And these fools, Dr. Radhakrishnan and company, they are so fools that so many animals they are walking on the sea, “I am going to see another man.” Just see, how they are fools. What is their credit? The sea lark. They call sea lark? They go very nicely. Why do they not see that? He is animal, he is, another is an animal. Krsna-Kanti: Birds can float and they can fly. Prabhupada: Yes. So Dr. Radhakrishnan was a big rascal. Svarupa Damodara: But I could not believe by that time. I said, “It cannot be possible.” Prabhupada: No, it is possible. It is possible. If one has practiced yoga system, He can become light. To walk over the water means to become very light, like cotton swab. Then he can walk. He can fly also. In Siddha-lokas, the inhabitants there, they fly in the sky. From one planet to another planet they go by flying. There is Siddha-loka planet. Therefore they are called Siddha-loka, means they have all perfection of this yogic mystic power. Krsna-Kanti: Are Siddha-lokas like angels, Prabhupada? Prabhupada: Angels, you can call, they are angels. But there are human beings who fly. In your side, Kamakah (?), there are some ladies who fly in the sky on a tree. You have not heard? Svarupa Damodara: I very vaguely have heard. Prabhupada: Yes. There are. They can fly in the sky on a tree. Svarupa Damodara: When I was a child, our grandfathers used to tell those things. So I would… Prabhupada: No, it is a fact. That is mentioned in Bhagavata also, that… Whose daughter? She dreamed of a nice husband. So her friend, Krsna-Kanti: Usa. Prabhupada: Ah, Usa, Usa, yes. So Aniruddha. That friend brought Aniruddha, Krsna’s son. She dreamt Aniruddha. So she promised, “I am bringing you just picture, which picture do you like?” Krsna-Kanti: Citralekha. Prabhupada: Citralekha. Yes, he remembers. (pause) Svarupa Damodara: There is an experiment that was done by Pasteur, a French scientist a long time ago. In that experiment he boiled some, I think it was water. Because normally the water, without boiling there are so many microorganisms, small, small living entities, that can be detected under microscope. He wanted to know whether life started from some ingredients inside or just life started from life. So he boiled this solution and he kept for some time under very careful covering so that there is no contamination from outside. And then there was no life. He couldn’t find any organisms. So they said, “Life starts from matter.” That is one of the experiments. Prabhupada: What is that experiment? Svarupa Damodara: Boil water first of all. Without boiling water, they can detect so many organisms, small, small bacteria and these small, small living entities under microscope. But when they would boil it and it kept for some time, and then they tested, there was no organisms. Prabhupada: But that microscope is imperfect. That is our contention. Because the living entities, the dimension of the living entity is 1/10,000th part of the top of your hair. So what you can see? Karandhara: Also, they make the condition unsuitable for the spirit soul to occupy. Just like if we take and kill all these bodies and put them somewhere, and come back in a week, it’s not that life will come back to the bodies. They make the circumstances unsuitable for the spirit soul. Prabhupada: Yes, that is another explanation. It takes time. Besides that, according to Bhagavad-gita, life is not killed by fire. Asosyo ’yam adahyo ’yam. You have not read it? Adahyah: “It cannot be burnt into fire.” So how life can be killed by boiling water? That is their nonsense. Karandhara: As soon the bodies become unsuitable, so the spirit soul leaves. Prabhupada: Asosyo ’yam adahyo ’yam. Adahyah. Svarupa Damodara: But by putting proper chemicals, then they can see again. The ingredients necessary for the survival of the living entities, the necessary amounts, like source of protein, source of carbon, then the life is again started. Prabhupada: Yes. Wherefrom the life came? Karandhara: It’s not started. It becomes suitable again for the spirit soul. So they come. Krsna-Kanti: They’re just changing the living conditions. Karandhara: Like if you put honey, ants will come. Prabhupada: Yes. That is good example. That does not mean the honey is producing ants. If life is coming from matter then why you are putting chemicals? That is also matter. Life will come. Svarupa Damodara: They say, without the chemicals, they cannot see life. Prabhupada: The chemical is also matter. Just like with one matter you make… Just like we mix so many matters. Turmeric, salt, spices, they are all matter. But mixing together, the condition is that it becomes a sweet vegetable. Similarly, the chemical is also matter. And water is also matter. So if life comes from matter, then it will come from the water. Why…? There is no use of mixing another chemicals? And it will actually be: Then let the water remain for some time. When it will decompose, the life will come. The stagnant water, life will come. Just like in the ocean, there are so many lives are coming out. Who is going to put the chemical? Nonsense. Where you have got so much chemical? And you can find out tons and tons, millions of tons of fish, but nobody went to give there the chemicals. Svarupa Damodara: They will say, nature supplies the chemicals. Prabhupada: So therefore that nature’s potency is acintya. That is beyond your calculation. That is our point. How nature is supplying, that you do not know. How there is very common thing. Just like from my body there are so many worms and germs will come out from the stool, there are so many worms. I am also producing life. I am not going to add some chemical. But the chemical is being supplied by me, by my potency. Otherwise, why so many worms are there in the stool? Hookworm and this worm and that worm? Sometimes from wood, what is called, termite? They come. And who is going to supply there chemical? And not from all wood. At a certain stage, it will come, without your adding chemicals. Svarupa Damodara: The chemicals are already there. Prabhupada: Already there. Everywhere chemicals are there. When the suitable circumstance is complete, then there is life. Svedaja. They are called svedaja. By fermentation, by perspiration, life will come. Andaja. Andaja means coming from the egg. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
May 9, 1973, Los Angeles