Morning Walk Conversation Prabhupada: …that the energy is displayed. It works; again it comes back to the original. That’s all. So what is their idea of conservation of energy? The same thing. Karandhara: Well, they say that there is no original. It never began, so there’s no original. Hrdayananda: They also say that there’s no resting place. They say that energy has no resting place. Prabhupada: But that is absurd because we see the energy is coming from the powerhouse, electric energy. How you cannot deny? Karandhara: The energy is just generated there, but it is not created there. Prabhupada: Generated, you simply change the name. What is the difference between generated and created? Karandhara: Well, created means to be born or to start. Prabhupada: Yes, born. The child is created. There was no child. Karandhara: But the energy which makes up this body was always present. Prabhupada: That we also say, by the formation, when it takes place, it is created. Just like you prepare food. Why do you say, “prepare”? What is the meaning of “prepare”? The ingredients are there, but why do you say, “prepare food”? You cannot say… Huh? What is that? Hrdayananda: Before you prepare it, that particular preparation… Prabhupada: That we say. The energy was… Karandhara: That is just a conventional term in relationship to you. That is just relative to you, relative to your relationship with that food. Prabhupada: This is called impersonalism… Karandhara: But the food was always there. Prabhupada: …that… We talk in relationship, everything, because this is relative world. Everything we talk, that is in relative consideration. That is Mayavada philosophy. They do not accept the relativity. Although when there is some toothache, he will go to the doctor. Why does he not…, “No, it is maya. Why I shall be troubled with the toothache?” Why does he go to the doctor? That is the defect of Mayavada philosophy. They are being affected by the change, but still, they will say, “There is no change. It is all the same.” Karandhara: Well, that is what they say. They say, “If it is all the same, then I can go to the doctor.” Prabhupada: Yes, but that is foolishness. If they say once that “The suffering and not suffering is all the same,” why does he go to the doctor? Karandhara: Well, when you say, “It’s all the same,” it doesn’t matter what you do. You have encompassed everything. Giriraja: But they always go. Karandhara: That doesn’t matter. If they don’t go or do go, it’s all the same. It doesn’t matter. Prabhupada: That means it doesn’t matter… If I beat you with shoes, it doesn’t matter? Why do you become angry? Karandhara: Well, it doesn’t matter that I become angry. Prabhupada: (laughing) So let me beat you. You don’t become angry or become angry, I don’t care. Karandhara: Well, they say, “That’s going on anyway.” Prabhupada: That’s all right. Then there is no question of philosophy. Finish. Everything one. That… This philosophy was discussed by Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His mother. He was eating dirt, and mother gave Him sandesa. So He did not care to take sandesa. He was eating dirt. Then mother came, “My dear boy, why you are eating dirt? Here is sandesa. I have given you.” “Mother, what is the difference between sandesa and dirt? They are all the same. (laughing) They are all the same.” “Yes, my dear boy, You are impersonalist philosopher. But it is required. Just like the water jug is also earth, made of earth. It is earth. And this ground is also earth. But when you have to keep water you require this water jug, not this earth.” That is relativity. If you have to take work, then you cannot say, “Well, this is also earth, this is also… Why…? The pot is not required. Put water here.” Then you will suffer, no water. So this kind of philosophy was discussed when Caitanya Mahaprabhu was a child. [break] …and the tree is the same thing. But when I walk, I require the stick, not this tree. [break] …The dogs must be on lash (leash). If somebody does not do that, he is criminal. So if he pleads in the court, “There is no difference, dogs on the lash or without lash. Why you are punishing me?” But will that be accepted? Karandhara: Well, the judge says, “There is no difference whether I put you in jail or not.” Prabhupada: (laughs) That’s it. Then he has to accept jail. He should not defend himself. “Never mind. I go to jail.” Why he appoints a lawyer to defend himself? Karandhara: Well, that’s what the impersonalist philosophers say, that “Go ahead and…” [break] Prajapati: …The most famous theologian of this century named Paul Tillich said that all words are symbols, and God is a religious symbol pointing to our ultimate concern. Prabhupada: Yes, that’s nice. We say also. Karandhara: Except Paul Tillich was the ultimate rascal. He was a debaucher. He debauched women all over Europe. Hrdayananda: He recently died. Karandhara: There is a book about him, a very inflammatory book about how he would debauch all of his friends. He said he got all of his inspirations after having sex with other women. He said after having sex he would get his inspirations on theology. Prabhupada: Sometimes the drunkards say also like that. They get inspiration by drinking. Karandhara: There is one very famous philosopher named Dubrown(?). He said that he had a saying that “Some men say that you become intoxicated by wine, but I become sobered by wine.” Prabhupada: That can be accepted. “One man’s food, another man’s poison.” That is going on everywhere. But for that reason one cannot accept poison as food. Is it not? Just like stool is food for the pigs. But that does not mean stool is food. It may be food for a certain class of animals. [break] No. Svarupa Damodara: I don’t think so. Prajapati: Food for somebody. Karandhara: It is very hard. Prajapati: Harder than a bullet? [break] Prabhupada: Oh, you have not covered? Child: That’s all right. [break] Prajapati: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Oh, so they are coming to consciousness. Why they are praying to God? Prajapati: Things get so bad, they have to turn to God. Prabhupada: Duhkhe sab hari bhaje. When one is distressed, there is sense of God consciousness, but if they continue it even in their happiness, then it is all right. Prajapati: They must have knowledge though, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: But in happiness they forget. (aside:) Don’t keep so near. Prajapati: Without knowledge their sentiment is just worthless. Prabhupada: Yes. Hrdayananda: That’s a fact. In American history, whenever there was economic prosperity, always increase in sense gratification. Historically speaking, in America, whenever there was increase in prosperity, there was a trend towards irreligion and sense gratification. Prabhupada: That is everywhere. Luxury leads to poverty. [break] …a living man, but if you are actually interested, why don’t you do it, organized way. Sentiment, it is good, but if you do not understand the science, sentiment may be for the time being. Sentiment is sentiment. That will not act. They are admitting sinful activities? Prajapati: Yes, they are admitting that… They are an abyss of moral decay. Prabhupada: So let them know what are the sinful activities. These are the sinful activities. Close all the slaughterhouses. Close all these illicit sex brothel houses, and close the liquor houses. Prajapati: The gambling also. Prabhupada: Certainly. Then their business will be finished. Then they will say, “Where we stand? It is all finished.” Now you stand on a different platform. Prajapati: Yesterday, Srila Prabhupada, in class, you mentioned how the churches, people could pay them for supposedly becoming very religious men. In Las Vegas, the capital of the gambling and the illicit sex and the intoxication, where all these things are very prominent, the churches there are very prominent also. These big demons, they pay large money to the churches and therefore they feel like they are very religious men even though they are committing all these sinful activities. Prabhupada: Yes. And by taking their sinful money, because they do not engage to Krsna, they also become sinful. Affection. Infection. [break] They have mentioned something like sinful? Prajapati: Yes, sinful. Prabhupada: What he has said, Karandhara? Karandhara: He doesn’t say specifically. He just said that generally the country is degraded and people have become apathetic, and the morals have reduced. He was referring to things like Watergate, political scandals, and the youth degradation. Prabhupada: But why they have degraded? That is to be understood… Not known to them. Karandhara: Yes. Actually they don’t have the scientific analysis. They just have some vague understanding that things are falling apart. Prabhupada: Here are the causes. Sinful life. [break] Prajapati: …the affair, Srila Prabhupada. Oh, then the country could be… Prabhupada: No, no, I am already in charge, but who is following me? (laughter) That is the difficulty. [break] …one who is to be followed, that is called acarya. So who is following the acarya? Nobody is following. Acarya is there, but nobody is following acarya. Acarana. Acarana means behavior. Acarya. “This man is ideal. One should follow him.” That is called acarya. [break] …to allow us one day to have chanting and speaking something about God consciousness. Prajapati: Very nice. Prabhupada: Yes. And I will go. I will speak and have kirtana. [break] …date. Karandhara: April 30th. Prabhupada: April 30th. So on that date arrange a meeting of the senators. And I will go and speak and have kirtana, what is actually life. Approach them that “We are spreading this. So why not arrange meeting?” Or any day, on 30th or any day. [break] …office here in Los Angeles? Karandhara: The local senator does. For this area. Prabhupada: So see him. You and you go and arrange, and explain to him that “This is our movement, simply how to make people pure, moral, sinless, and advanced in God consciousness.” Just take this opportunity. “You come and see how God consciousness we are executing, and then arrange a meeting in the Senate. And try to understand, ‘It is simply sentiment or how it will help me?’ ” [break] …so much money, and still they are crying, “Degradation.” So they should come to their senses. This kind of understanding will not help. They must understand scientifically. Svarupa Damodara: Everybody is saying, not only politicians, but everybody is saying that we are degrading. Moral standard is degrading. But nobody acts. That is the difficulty. Prabhupada: So it is our duty to help them. Those who are… Just like here is an opportunity. Go, see them immediately, the person. It is our duty. [break] Sometime I can go and see. Who is the senator, local? Karandhara: I’m not sure. Prabhupada: Find out and arrange some meeting. I shall go personally. Svarupa Damodara: How many senators here in California? Karandhara: Two per state. [break] Prabhupada: As we know about God, nobody knows in the world. That is a fact. Any person we can challenge that he has no clear idea, what is God, how to contact God, how to… Nobody knows. [break] Prajapati: …a vague notion that they should be serving God, but they do not know how or what will please God. Prabhupada: Vague notion must be there because we have got relationship with God, eternal. So that is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta. Nitya-siddha. It is eternally a fact that we are servant of God, but we have forgotten this. So that has to be revived by this sravana-kirtana, by hearing, chanting. This is the process. Otherwise, the relationship is already there. It is not to be created. It is already there. [break] Prajapati: An article appeared about the Vedanta Society here, and they mentioned us to say that we are not them. They said that “Those Hare Krsnas, they are fundamentalists.” Just like there are fundamentalist Christians, we are fundamentalist followers of Krsna. So it is very nice actually because it is fundamental to believe everything that Krsna says. Prabhupada: And what is the Vedanta? Hrdayananda: Speculation. They are speculators. They mostly have very elderly members, and they sit around in the evening and discuss. Prabhupada: A few. Not even a dozen. Karandhara: In their asrama they say they have eight or ten people living there. Prabhupada: No young men. Karandhara: No, all old ladies and men. The only reason they are allowed to live there is because they have given huge sums as donations. Prabhupada: [break] …last almost one hundred years, eighty, eighty- five years. So how many followers they have got? Karandhara: They have made no significant impression on anyone. Prabhupada: No. [break] Ramakrishna is God. Kali is God. And they offer prasadam, what is that? Chicken… Karandhara: Chicken, turkey, even meat. Prabhupada: Just see. Karandhara: Trivikrama Svami went to their monastery in Laguna Beach. So they were serving meat. Trivikrama said, “Why do you eat meat?” And they said, “That doesn’t matter. What does it matter what you eat ?” Prabhupada: Why don’t you eat stool? This question was raised by Malati. One man said like that. She said, “Why don’t you eat stool? Why you discriminate?” [break] Ramakrishna Mission has done the greatest harm to the Vedic culture. [break] …said, “Why you are afraid of God?” He said like that. “Why you are afraid of God?” One Christian padre, priest, he said, “You are coming from India? How you are speaking like this?” He was astonished. But this rascal spoke like that. “Why do you believe that you are sinners? There is no sin.” [break] Prajapati: The greatest sin is to think of ourselves as sinners. [break] Yogananda. Prabhupada: Oh. Because he was a rascal number one sinner. Svarupa Damodara: That is just like Srila Prabhupada’s example that the rabbits closing their eyes thinking that the danger is over. Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Hrdayananda: Shivananda, I gave a lecture at an asrama where his disciple was teaching, Vishnu Devananda. So he told a story how Shivananda, he would find out the lowest class of people, and he would go and garland them and worship them just like the Deity. And so his argument was that in Bhagavad-gita it says, panditah sama-darsinah [Bg. 5.18] Prabhupada: Why he is to the lower class? Sama-darsinah means he is equal to higher or lower. Why he is going to the lower? He could not answer this? Sama-darsinah, equal. Then he must be equal to the lower and the higher. So why he is particularly to the lower class? Then he is not sama-darsinah. Hrdayananda: Then his argument would be that he is trying to teach a lesson that the higher… Prabhupada: No, no, no. He may say nonsense. The fact is this. That if he is sama-darsinah, equal, then why he is particularly aiming to the lower class? That means he is not sama-darsinah. He has not come to the stage. He is simply talking nonsense. Sama-darsinah means he is equal to everyone. That is sama-darsinah. Sama-darsinah does not mean to get a cheap adoration, popularity, I go to the poor. That is their Ramakrishna Mission. They also are doing that same thing. Daridra-narayana-seva, like that. Why daridra? Why not real Narayana? Just like this morning we read narayana-pade. Never said daridra-narayana-pade. To the great. Surrender does not mean to the lower. Does it mean surrender? Surrender, this relationship means that to whom I surrender, he is greater than me. And to the lower, mercy. These two words. One who is lower than me, I may show my mercy, but one who is greater than me, there is the question of surr… [break] (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
December 20, 1973, Los Angeles