Morning Walk Conversation
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
April 26, 1976, Melbourne

Prabhupada:mam abhijanati. By bhakti one can understand Krsna.

Guru-krpa: Then they say that understanding means to understand that Krsna is just the Brahman.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guru-krpa: That understanding means that Krsna’s Brahman only.

Prabhupada: Why?

Guru-krpa: Krsna is representative of Brahman.

Prabhupada: No. Brahman is on the lotus feet of Krsna. Brahmano hi pratisthaham. Why do you go, deviate from the statement of Bhagavad-gita? Anyone who deviates from the statement of Bhagavad-gita, we take him as mudha, rascal. That is our Krsna consciousness movement. We don’t accept anything else. And we are supported by all the acaryas. [break] …practical result.

Pusta Krsna: They try to categorize these modern Hindu deviators, like Vivekananda and Ramakrishna. They try to put them as acaryas also.

Prabhupada: All rascals. They are not acaryas.

Guru-krpa: Last night this boy sits down and immediately he says, “I am a Hindu.” I said, “What is this Hindu business? We are not interested in Hindu.” Then he said, “Well, you do not know.” “How you can say we do not know?” “Well, I was born a Hindu.” So I said, “So how you know what I was born? What does that matter, where we were born? A learned person doesn’t speak birth.” Representing himself as very advanced or something. “Okay, you become Brahman, but we think that that is hell. That is no better than hell for us. And that is the liberation that the demons get. So we are satisfied to chant Krsna’s name, and we never want to become one. We would rather go to hell, because in hell we can chant Hare Krsna, but in the Brahman we cannot chant.”

Prabhupada: Staunch adherent. [break]

Guru-krpa: …in Bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupada, that when a devotee, he sees a banyan, fruit of a banyan tree, and there are so many seeds within that fruit, and each seed can mean one tree and one tree means millions of fruits, and in this way the devotee can appreciate Krsna. But the jnanis, they go on speculating, and they can never relish anything. The devotee can simply relish how Krsna has done everything in the material nature.

Prabhupada: We can go here? No. And no…

Pusta Krsna: Yes. It is a little distance there.

Devotee (1): [break] …devotee is only unhappy to see others unhappy. Does this ever cease? Is a devotee always unhappy because of this?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee (1): Is a devotee always in some anxiety to see others unhappy?

Prabhupada: Yes. How to deliver them? This is Krsna anxiety. This kind of anxiety is welcome.

Devotee (1): Yes. Is that also in the spiritual world like this?

Prabhupada: Yes. In spiritual world there is everything, but only central point is Krsna. Here anxiety is “Where I shall get money? Where I shall get woman?” And there is anxiety, “How shall I get Krsna?” The anxiety is there. That is the difference.

Devotee (1): But do they have anxiety…

Prabhupada: Here all people are anxious how to get money and how to get woman, that’s all. And there the anxiety is how to get Krsna. The anxiety is there, but quality is different.

Devotee (1): If we’re in anxiety that we cannot perform devotional service nicely, that is all right?

Prabhupada: That is devotional side. Krsna anxiety itself is the first- class devotional service. If one becomes anxious like that, then he is perfect. Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate. After many, many millions of life of pious activities one can get such anxiety. This is not so easy, to become anxious for Krsna. You don’t think it is like ordinary activity (anxiety?). Koti-sukrtaih. If one becomes full of anxiety for Krsna, that is the highest stage of perfection.

Devotee (1): So the anxiety that I am always falling down…

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): We are in the neophyte stage, and we’re often falling down.

Prabhupada: You don’t imitate. You follow the rules and regulations. Don’t try artificially to be anxious. When you are purified, then you’ll get that anxiety, not artificially. Then you are sahajiya.

Devotee (1): I don’t mean to hanker for the anxiety, but to…

Prabhupada: No, anxiety, that is…. That will come, the perfectional stage. Don’t try to be perfect artificially. Perfect stage, we have to follow strictly the regulative principle, the injunction of the spiritual master, sastra. Then you come to that stage. Don’t artificially imitate.

Devotee (1): What if one keeps falling down from following the regulative principles?

Prabhupada: He’s falling down? If he’s falling down from regulative principles, that means he’s falling down to the material world. Falling down means falling down.

Devotee (2): [break] …from the regulative principles and feels anxiety, then that anxiety is material anxiety.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (2): It’s not spiritual.

Pusta Krsna: So anxiety for one’s self is maya?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Pusta Krsna: Anxiety for one’s self is maya?

Prabhupada: That is material.

Pusta Krsna: And anxiety for Krsna?

Prabhupada: That is spiritual. [break] …Gosvami’s sloka. Krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam yadi kuto ’pi labhyate: “The anxiety for Krsna, if it can be purchased, immediately purchase it.” Rupa Gosvami said. Krsna-bhakti-rasa-bhavita matih kriyatam: “Just purchase Krsna anxiety if it is available somewhere.” So the next question will be that “What is the price?” Tatra laulyam api mulyam ekalam: “That anxiety can be purchased by anxiety.” “So I’ll do it.” No. Janma-koti-sukrtair na labhyate: “That anxiety is not available even by millions of births’ pious activities.” So this anxiety is not so easy.

Devotee (1): So if we’re performing the Deity worship and we get in anxiety, how to make it nice…

Prabhupada: Yes, that is Krsna anxiety. That is Krsna anxiety. If you become anxious how to worship Deity, how to dress Krsna nicely, how to do, if you remain, that will develop your anxiety for Krsna. Therefore Deity worship essential. Exactly in time to get up, to offer mangala-arati, to dress, this anxiety is the beginning of Krsna anxiety. Then, when you become perfect, you’ll always be anxious for Krsna. And that is perfectional stage. Therefore, by the injunction of the sastra, regulative, it is a way of creating that anxiety. So we must follow. Then we’ll come to the real anxiety.

Guru-krpa: Not artificially.

Devotee (1): So therefore it is good that we have so much Deity worship to do that we’re very, very busy and we do not have any time?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): We practically do not have enough time, but that is very good?

Prabhupada: Enough time?

Devotee (1): To worship the Deity. We have so much to do.

Prabhupada: So what enough time you want? To go to the cinema? (laughter) Then? Your time has to be occupied by Krsna anxiety. That’s all. And as soon as you go to other anxiety, then it is maya.

Guru-krpa: If we have four hours to dress the Deity, we can use the whole four hours. But sometimes we only have an hour and a half, so we have to rush. So that is anxiety.

Prabhupada: No, that anxiety does not mean this laziness, that “I am anxiety for four hours. Deity cannot be opened now. I am in anxiety.” That is negligence. That is negligence. That is not anxiety.

Devotee (2): When we are distributing books, Srila Prabhupada, and we are not doing so good and we are in anxiety, that is also spiritual?

Prabhupada: That is…. For selling books anxiety is Krsna anxiety. If you become very anxious how to sell more books, that is Krsna anxiety. That is not trade anxiety; that is Krsna anxiety.

Guru-krpa: So some people say that “When I go on sankirtana to sell books I become in too much anxiety if I’m not doing well, so I’d rather not do it.”

Prabhupada: No, that is Krsna anxiety. He does not know. Let him know that that is Krsna anxiety. Yasoda, mother Yasoda, became mother of Krsna so that she would always remain in anxiety for Krsna, whether Krsna is safe. That is mother’s anxiety. Therefore she became mother. How to become in Krsna anxiety? This philosophy nobody knows. Everyone takes Krsna as the father. Father means I’m anxiety-less: “Father, you supply my wants.” And to become father of Krsna means to purchase anxiety for Krsna. This philosophy they do not know.

Devotee (2): They say, that man the other night, he said…

Prabhupada: To accept Krsna as father means “My father is there. I have no anxiety.” And if you accept Krsna as your son, then you are full of Krsna anxiety. This is the philosophy. And these Mayavadis, they cannot understand. They think that Krsna is born of this father and mother, how He is God? But they do not know the philosophy.

Pusta Krsna: They talk of santi.

Prabhupada: Mother Yasoda is always anxious. “Krsna is crawling. Whether He is falling down in some water or some monkey has come, hurting Him, or…?” Always. Or “He is touching some fire.” Always anxiety. And besides that, the demons are coming. So this is perfection. Always remain in anxiety for Krsna.

Guru-krpa: [break] They just think, na socati na kanksati.

Prabhupada: Mayavadi rascal, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has condemned them, mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa. If you hear Mayavadi association, then your bhakti life is finished. Don’t touch them. [break] Still, they are little more than the karmis. [break] …this place they are dragged through this, what is called? Short grass? Through this.

Devotee (1): That is anxiety, Srila Prabhupada. That is anxiety, when one goes to Yamaraja and has to face.

Prabhupada: That is the result of material anxiety. [break] To become anxiety-less, no more anxiety. That is nonsense.

Guru-krpa: They say, “Krsna says, na socati na kanksati.”

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guru-krpa: Na socati na kanksati.

Prabhupada: That is material, socati, kanksati. But in spiritual world the same socati, kanksati, is there, but for Krsna. First of all you have to negate the material socati, kanksati. Then spiritual, mad-bhaktim labhate param. Beginning is brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu [Bg. 18.54]. Then spiritual anxiety begins. When this is neutralized, then actual life begins. That is bhakti. Otherwise what is the mean…? Mad-bhaktim. In bhakti there is anxiety. That is spiritual anxiety.

Pusta Krsna: Otherwise, what is the meaning of bhakti? It comes after.

Prabhupada: Zero, they are sunyavadi, zero, and nirvisesavadi. The same thing. But we are not sunyavadi. Whole is not zero. The anxiety…. You cannot become anxiety-less. That is artificial. If you artificially become anxiety-less, then artificially you can remain anxiety-less for some time. Again you fall down. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. Falls down. But the anxiety should be purified. That is wanted. Not anxiety-less. You are living being. You cannot be anxiety…. That means you are dead. A living being has no anxiety—that means he is dead. That is not the ideal. The anxiety should be purified from material contamination, and it should be only for Krsna. Then it is perfect. Here the anxiety with some designation, “I am the father of this family,” this is my anxiety, how to maintain them. “I am the leader of this nation.” That is my anxiety. So all these anxieties are material, upadhi. I am neither father nor leader. I am servant of Krsna. I have created artificial anxieties. So therefore I have to become free from this artificial anxiety. And nitya-krsna-dasa. And when he is pure servant of Krsna, he’s always anxious how to serve Krsna. This is the…. The anxiety is there, and now it is purified. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], completely fresh. And then with that senses, hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktih. This is bhakti. Mad-bhaktim labhate.

Pusta Krsna: They can’t stop, na socati na kanksati. They have to go further.

Prabhupada: Yes. And this is negation. Just like one man is diseased. He is also eating, he is also sleeping, but that is not healthy eating, sleeping. He has to get relief from this eating, lying down on the bed and eating by some instrument. This nonsense eating, sleeping should be stopped. And when he’s healthy, he eats also, sleeps also. That is different. That is different eating, sleeping, but they do not…. He is suffering from disease. He thinks, “Again eating? Make it zero. Make it zero.” This is Mayavadi. He has no taste what is the other eating. He wants to make it zero because here the eating is so botheration, “Oh, let me commit suicide. Make it zero.” So that is Buddha philosophy.

Guru-krpa: Sour grapes.

Prabhupada: So that is good for the less intelligent class of men. Because they cannot understand what is bhakti, so Buddha therefore says, “First of all make this zero, rascal. Then your real life begins.” But what is that real life he did not say, because the rascals will not understand. Simply advised, “You make this zero, sunyavadi.” Then, when time will come, he will understand what is positive.

Devotee (2): Srila Prabhupada, this process is su-sukham, very, very joyful. So how can we explain to the karmis that this anxiety…

Prabhupada: You are not feeling joyful? To chant, dance, and eat prasadam is not joyful? Is it not?

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: Then what do you want more? And simply by chanting, dancing, and eating prasadam you are making progress. Therefore it is su-sukham. You haven’t got to press your nose and make your head down and starve for three hundred years, nothing like that. Go to the forest, go to the Himalayas…. No. At your place you chant, dance, and take prasadam. That’s all. [break]

Guru-krpa: (in car) Therefore any other argument that we present, they…

Prabhupada: There is no argument. “You remain yourself. Let us remain peaceful. You remain peaceful. We are following our mahajana.” Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. We have got so many exalted mahajanas. Vyasadeva, Sukadeva Gosvami, Narada, Asita, Devala, Arjuna, in recent, in the recent years, within two thousand years, all the acaryas. So we are safe. We don’t require your help. Bas. If you are satisfied with whatever you have understood, you remain. [break] …authorities. And the most exalted of them is Krsna, so we have no doubt. You cannot make us doubtful. That is not possible.

Guru-krpa: But I think they are doubtful, though.

Prabhupada: Yes. Otherwise why they complain? They’re doubtful.

Guru-krpa: Asamsayam samagram.

Prabhupada: That…. Yes. That verse?

mayy asakta-manah partha yogam yunjan mad-asrayah asamsayam samagram mam yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu [Bg. 7.1]

Asamsayam: “Without any doubt, and in fullness, as you understand, I’ll see to(?)” This is our faith. We have no asamsaya, and we have no imperfect understanding. Asamsayam samagram. Asamsayam means without any doubt, and samagram means in full. You know simply Brahman. That is that full knowledge. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. That’s all right. You have come to the light, just like you have come to the sunshine, light, but does not mean that you have gone to the sun globe or you have seen the sun-god. That will take many millions of years to become so perfect. But you have come to the light—that much credit to you. That is ordinary. Everyone sees the sunlight. That does not require much endeavor. But if you want to go to the sun globe and enter there to see the sun-god, then that requires special qualification. So you are ordinary man. You have come to the light from darkness. That much credit to you, that’s all.

Guru-krpa: [break] …angry about was how they can come to Your Divine Grace and be so puffed up and be insulting.

Prabhupada: How they are haughty, insulting.

Guru-krpa: Like you said, he is just a tiny student.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guru-krpa: He is such a tiny student, and he comes to Your Divine Grace. In all respects, he should at least be a little bit submissive.

Prabhupada: But we call them rascals. What is more insulting than…? We call them rascals. A tiny student…. A student, he is learning something. But “You are rascal. Nothing at all.”

Guru-krpa: He didn’t call us a rascal.

Prabhupada: Mudha. (interference) …rejecting Krsna, you are rascals. We don’t say; Krsna says. Because you are not taking Krsna seriously, you are mudha. And when he wants to know what is mudha, rascal…. (interference)

Guru-krpa: …in this lifetime.

Prabhupada: There is no question of becoming perfect. Try to become perfect. That is perfect. Don’t become…. (interference) Remain always student and try to become perfect. That is wanted. Guru more murkha dekhi’ karila sasana. [break]

Guru-krpa: That is what Rahugana, he asked Jada Bharata, “How have you attained such a perfectional stage?”

Prabhupada: Rahuganaitat tapasa na yati na cejyaya nirvapanad…

Guru-krpa: That is our wonder, how Your Divine Grace has attained such a perfectional stage.

Pusta Krsna: The conclusion was that only by the dust of the lotus feet of a pure devotee. [break]

Prabhupada: That’s all. (end)