Room Conversation Jayapataka: I was with him when he posted the letter. Prabhupada: But where is that… Jayapataka: I’ll ask him when I see him. Prabhupada: You have got any copy? No. Jayapataka: I didn’t keep a copy. Prabhupada: When they submit? Quarterly? Jayapataka: Yes. Prabhupada: Part of the money is contribution for construction of my house. Ten thousand. Ten thousand dollars? Jayapataka: Ten thousand dollars I think. Jayatirtha mentioned. Prabhupada: I’m writing one letter to the governor that I work hard, I print my books and they are selling, and if I bring the money to construct temple, why people are envious? What is the wrong there? Rather, I should be encouraged that I am bringing so much money in India, foreign exchange, by my hard labor. So why they are envious? Why… I have sent this to the governor. Jayapataka: To the governor? Prabhupada: Governor, Mr. Chandra Reddy. “Why, wherefrom they are getting money, where, why?” That is my very, very hard labor, that’s all. Is it wrong if a man works hard and gets money in foreign country and bring in India? Gargamuni: I think they cannot believe that a sadhu could have so much money from selling books. Prabhupada: That may be beyond their dream, but I am not so- called sadhu. I am trying to execute the orders of my Guru Maharaja, predecessor. I am not a so-called sadhu, taking a saffron robe, begging for fulfilling the belly. Gargamuni: They have to accept you as an international leader. Prabhupada: I must be international leader. Yes, they are surprised how… This is unique in the history, that a single person’s books are sold in so many large quantities. I don’t think any author has sold so many books. Huh? Gargamuni: In some of the American magazines they publish a best- seller list of books, and the number of books we sell goes beyond the best-seller list. Prabhupada: And especially philosophical and religious books. These people do not touch. (laughs) Untouchable. Has even Vivekananda has presented so many books? A small book, “Thus spake…” And what he will write? What does he know? Simply bluffers. Chaliots.(?) Our Bon Maharaja is also one of the chaliots. What is the English for chaliot? Jayapataka: Bluffers? Prabhupada: It means he has no assets but he shows that he is very big. That is called chaliot. Jayapataka: Bluffer. Prabhupada: Bluffer? Our Tirtha Maharaja’s Caitanya Research Institute. Here is an Indian Institute for… What is that? Bon Maharaja’s? Institute for Indian Culture and Philosophy. But where is your book? You have seen that Tirtha Maharaja’s one book? The Vedanta as Caitanya Has Seen, like that. And he has given a picture of himself with effulgence on his head. You have seen that? Gargamuni: No, I have not seen that one. In all the mandiras where his picture is there, they have all the acaryas’ pictures, but only his picture has the effulgence. Prabhupada: Such a rascal. He has given Prabhupada’s picture, no effulgence. His picture, effulgence. He’s such a rascal. Publicly he’s showing. Jayapataka: But unfortunately that had to be painted in. He could not just show… Gargamuni: There’s no natural… Prabhupada: Could not illuminate. Remain in darkness. Effulgence in darkness. And such a shameless man. He is giving effulgence in the picture. [break] Gargamuni: …see that this society is replacing the Ramakrishna Mission there. Prabhupada: Huh? Gargamuni: We can see practically that this society, your society, is replacing this Ramakrishna Mission more and more. Prabhupada: Why Ramakrishna Mission? We are far above the Ramakrishna Mission. Gargamuni: Yes. As far as the people go. They are all saying Hare Krsna and… They don’t even mention… Sometimes they ask us, “Do you know who Ramakrishna is?” And we say, “No, we have never heard of him.” They go, “You have not heard of Ramakrishna?” We say, “No. We only know Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya. Everybody knows that, and nobody knows who is Ramakrishna.” Jayapataka: They do not know what to say. Gargamuni: Then they don’t know what to say. They say, “You mean you don’t know that Chicago Address?” We say, “No. What? Oh, when Prabhupada went for Ratha-yatra? Yes, that we know.” Prabhupada: That Chicago Address was the worst. He is defying, “Why you give credit to God?” This is the… We have seen that Chicago Address. Now they are eliminating. Most blasphemous. One Christian priest, he was surprised, “What kind of nonsense these Indians are…” He asked him, “How you are speaking in this way, ‘Why you are giving credit to God?’ ” He said like that, “You are working, why you are giving credit to God?” This is Vivekananda’s realization. And he created God, a illiterate priest, he become God. Because he said, “I am God.” That is the proof. Jayapataka: Because he said? Prabhupada: “I am God. I am the same Rama, same Krsna.” Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that, “I am the same Rama, same Krsna.” So he took it. This is evidence. Because Krsna says “I am the Supreme.” So he said, “I am the same Rama, same Krsna.” This is the evidence. If Krsna can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture. Jayapataka: At one town, Beturhari, that, it is called Nakashiparathana. That’s about thirty miles north of Mayapura. One day in advance they advertised that we were coming and we were having a public showing of the cinema and Nitai-Gaura arati. And they had one maidan called Library Maidan. There was one, like, one stage there. Prabhupada: It is in West Bengal? Jayapataka: West Bengal. That’s in Nadia district. Just before Pulasi, south of Pulasi. And when we came there and I saw the police in the afternoon, we told them we were going to have a function. So they said that they would send a few policemen. They said that “We will send some policemen for keeping the order.” But that night so many people came the space could only hold four thousand. But another two, three thousand people came, and they were turned away because of insufficient space. So they were standing on the wall and on the rooftops all around, and all you could see were people’s heads, just like an ocean. The policemen, after it was over… When I chanted, I chanted, “Everyone please chant Hare Krsna.” And I chanted the full mantra three times. They chanted so loud that even two, three blocks away people thought that the heavens were shouting. It was like a thunder… Prabhupada: Thunderbolt. Jayapataka: Thunderbolt. And the policemen said that never—even the chief minister came here once—not even half so many people came, and that was announced for one week. This was announced for one day and more people came than ever before. He said, “This really shows me that the people are hungry for spiritual answer. They have no one to lead them.” Gargamuni: And these leaders are simply envious, that’s all. The only reason why they’re not helping us is because they’re envious. Because so many people are interested and no one is interested in them. Prabhupada: Anyway, our Gitar-gan is selling. Jayapataka: Yes. When we stopped at Burdwan, in one place, one boy sold 198 Bhagavad-gitas, Gitar-gan, without moving. So many Gitas… People were just crowding around taking Gitas so much that the local… There were some bookstores. They also came and they said that “We cannot get wholesale? We have never seen such a book sell so well.” Gargamuni: Even people come to the temple in Calcutta, they want ten, fifteen copies. Village people. Poor people. They come and say, “Gitar-gan, where is that? I have heard.” And they take ten or fifteen copies, they wrap it in their cloth and bring it to the village. It is becoming very popular. Wherever you go, “Where is this Gitar-gan?” Jayapataka: I went to Writer’s Building, I had four or five copies with me. I didn’t go for selling. I went to see ministers. But all the peons, they were buying the Gitar-gans from me. I sold out. People were coming up with rupees saying, “Gitar-gan.” I didn’t have any more. Prabhupada: Out of their own accord they… Gargamuni: No, they’ve heard of it. It’s becoming famous. Jayapataka: That’s our inspiration, that if we can make Gitar-gan and Your Divine Grace famous all over Bengal, then we will feel that our mission… Prabhupada: Yes, I could not write any… I wrote some Bengali book, that is now… It can be collected from Devananda Gaudiya Matha. I continually wrote one book, Bhagavaner Katha. Jayapataka: People are begging us for books in Bengali written by Your Divine Grace. We tell them that… There’s no time. Prabhupada: That Subhaga translated. But his translations are not so… Gargamuni: No. There’s always trouble with translation in local languages, Hindi or Gujarati. Prabhupada: They do not know the philosophy. Gargamuni: No. And they do the wrong words. Jayapataka: Now they have a… I put a two-man team. A two-or three-man team. Subhaga, there’s one boy Kisora, and Tatpur. Between the three of them they check and recheck. Prabhupada: Tatpur is educated? Jayapataka: He’s got a B.A. or something. Prabhupada: Oh. Jayapataka: He doesn’t write himself. He writes in old fashion. But he corrects for double-checking philosophy. Editing. And this Kisora, he was a M.A. and he previously used to write. He was an honor student at Calcutta University, and he used to freelance write in Bengali. So his style is very nice. Prabhupada: Why not engage him in simply… Jayapataka: He is translating now our… Gargamuni: That’s all he does. Jayapataka: That and he greets the guests. He’s also good at membership. Prabhupada: Gitar-gan has become popular. Gargamuni: Yes. That name has become very popular. Everyone is asking, “Where is this Gitar-gan?” Prabhupada: So you can register the name so that others may not… Jayapataka: Yes, otherwise they’ll cash in on it. Prabhupada: Yes. You can register it the name. Patron registration. Copyright registration. Gargamuni: It says it in the book. Jayapataka: It says, but you should make sure it’s registered. Gargamuni: Gopala, he printed it. I don’t know if he had it registered. It says in the book, “All Rights Reserved.” Prabhupada: That is your statement. But it must be legally protected. Jayapataka: They may check up and find out not so and then do it. That Bhagavaner Katha was printed in what book? Do you know? Prabhupada: They have got a paper—Gaudiya. Gargamuni: These books that Gaura-Govinda, he wants to get printed. How do we know what is being said? I don’t know. Prabhupada: Yes, that is the… One Orrian gentleman will come and get him to read this book. Then I can understand where he stands. Gargamuni: Because he has… The Topmost Yoga is ready, but I didn’t want to print that yet until… Prabhupada: Never mind. I’ll… After hearing this book I’ll let him know. Jayapataka: After they write everything, then I also read it in Bengali. I can… And if I see something that seems a little impersonal or something, I say that… Prabhupada: Correct it. Jayapataka: Yes, correct it. That much I can do. Prabhupada: Impersonal idea is in everyone’s head. “God has no legs, no head. Simply he has got head.” Jayapataka: I can also write to the… Previously in 1971-72 at the pandals you used to speak in Bengali some days. I’ll write for those tapes. We can… Gargamuni: Oh, those tapes. I asked for those tapes so long ago. If we can get those Hindi and Bengali tapes we could have them transcribed, and they can make very good essays. Jayapataka: All the big English Back to Godhead articles are actually your lectures simply transcribed. So we could transcribe those tapes and we could have originally your words. Gargamuni: Yes. There were ten days when Prabhupada spoke in Bengali. Jayapataka: Twice. Once in Deshapriya Park and once at Maidan. Even today people talk about both festivals. Prabhupada: Bhagavaner Katha. Jayapataka: Bhagavaner Katha. Devananda Gaudiya Matha. Paper of Gaudiya. Prabhupada: Yes. Gaudiya it was published continuous. Jayapataka: What years we should look? More or less. Prabhupada: 1950 or little before that. They have got their old Gaudiyas. Jayapataka: They must have. Prabhupada: They were so popular, the report was that the readers of Gaudiya were only hankering after that Bhagavaner Katha, and after reading that they will throw away. Other articles, they were not interested. Jayapataka: So always your writing, people were attracted by. Prabhupada: Yes. That is a fact. Even my teachers were attracted in school days. Jayapataka: Recently that…, some professor said that you are the veritable incarnation of Vyasadeva for Lord Caitanya. Prabhupada: Yes. Some have said like that. In my matriculation class I wrote some essay and I got out of 100, 85 marks. But the teacher came to the class, “Who has written this?” So I stood up, and he thanked me, “Yes, it is very nice.” He especially came to thank me for that essay. Gargamuni: At least from the human standpoint, it is not humanly possible to have so many books in such a short time. There is no other author, at least that we know. Jayapataka: I showed your “As Brilliant as the Sun” to Tarun Kanti Gosh and one other minister, and when they saw that, then after, for ten minutes, all they could say was how Prabhupada, how he is empowered by Lord Gauranga. Prabhupada: They said like that. Jayapataka: Yes. That’s a good movie because it simply shows how you are doing so many books. Gargamuni: We also showed that to that Atul Krishna Goswami. He came to Mayapura. When he saw that he was so…, that movie, they had never seen such a thing, the process of printing the books. Prabhupada: He has good idea about… Gargamuni: Oh, yes. Jayapataka: He has translated Caitanya-caritamrta in Hindi, they say. Prabhupada: He presented me one. Jayapataka: Many people ask that if the Gitar-gan could be put in Hindi. Gargamuni: This Gita Press, they have these little books selling for one rupee, and they’ve sold lakhs. If we can put Gitar-gan into many languages, it will be bigger than this Gita Press. Prabhupada: So you can… It is poetry. Jayapataka: That’s the difference, that Prabhupada put it in poetry. Who has got that inspiration? Prabhupada: It is gan, gita, song. One can chant it singing. Jayapataka: Some people say, “We want the Gita. This is only gan.” But then we have to say, “No, this has got the full Gita. Everything is there. Every sloka is in here. Only put in gan form. But it is actual Gita.” Other people say, “I have so many Gitas.” We say, “No, no, you can chant this with your harmonium or by khol and karatala you can sing.” So many ways the people are taking it. Prabhupada: Yes, they can sing very nicely. Jayapataka: When we can hear over the loudspeakers Gitar-gan being sung, then we will feel very happy. When the public will start singing publicly Gitar-gan… Prabhupada: Public singing? Jayapataka: When the public began to recite Gitar-gan at their functions, like they’re doing this Tulasidasa Ramayana, if they start that in Bengal, Gitar-gan, then it will be a big success. Prabhupada: Tulasidasa. Tulasidasa Ramayana is very popular. Because the Hindis, they have no literature. There is no literature. Jayapataka: If some Gaudiya Vaisnava could rewrite that according to siddhanta, then it would be very good. Prabhupada: Which one? Jayapataka: His Ramayana has got many philosophical errors in it. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Jayapataka: If a Gaudiya Vaisnava could write that properly… Prabhupada: Why? Gaudiya Vaisnava has immense literature. Why they should bother with Tulasidasa? By reading Tulasidasa’s Rama-carita-manasa in my experience I’ve not seen a single man has come to the spiritual platform. I have not seen a single man. Gargamuni: That is not transcendental literature. Because by reading these books you come to transcendental realization. Prabhupada: Yes, that is wanted. They want asirvada. Just like so many people come, asirvada. “You are a saintly person, you give me asirvada so my material happiness may increase. I am not interested with the spiritual knowledge. Give me blessing so that for nothing I get, upgrade my material opulence.” This is their… So those Tulasidasa readers, they are like that. They want material opulence. Arto-artharthi, artharthi, want some material benefit. They chant Tulasidasa’s Rama-carita-manasa for some material benefit. They’re not interested in the spiritual advancement. Nobody. That Delhi temple where they have pandita? I’m forgetting his name. Jayapataka: One pandita in Delhi? That one asrama is there. The one whom you stayed with that time? Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna? Krsnadasa? Jayapataka: I just met him once. Tejas brought him. He’s got some asrama. Some acarya or something. Acarya something. Prabhupada: Oh, that Prabhakara. Jayapataka: Acarya Prabhakara? Prabhupada: No. Prabhakara is different. Prabhakara was first initiated by me. Jayapataka: Your first disciple. Prabhupada: Yes. Hari-nama-mantra he was given. Gargamuni: What year was that? Prabhupada: 1954 I think. He did some service. In Jhansi… Gargamuni: You had that League. I saw photos of that. That League of Devotees. Prabhupada: Hmm. A very nice building. Gargamuni: That was nice. Prabhupada: Very nice building. Gargamuni: With front wall and you had painted “League of Devotees.” Prabhupada: Oh, you have seen. Gargamuni: I have seen the photo. Big place. Jayapataka: That is still existing? Prabhupada: Very big place. That you have seen this Kesavaji Gaudiya Matha in Mathura? No. There is Caitanya Mahaprabhu Deity. That Deity was there. When I closed that I brought that big, big sannyasi and delivered them, they will show. Jayapataka: One man cheated you there? Some land? No. Prabhupada: The building belonged to a big zamindar. So Prabhakara arranged. So it was to be given to me, and I wanted to start the League of Devotees from there. So I spent some money, whatever money I had, and it was going on. But in the meantime, this Lilavati Munshi, Mrs. At that time she was wife of the governor. Her husband, K. M. Munshi. She had some organization of foreign women. So somehow or other she got imagination that “This house is very nice.” She was governor’s wife. So it was not given to me rightly, but I was using. So she wanted that house. Through collector and through all government officials pressure. She wrote me later on, that “Bhaktivedantaji, you wanted to organize, but you could not. But I have got this institution. Why not give it to me?” So, of course, there were many lawyer friends. They advised me that “You do not give up. You should litigate.” So I thought, “Who is going to litigate? Let me go to Vrndavana.” So I left. So at Mathura I delivered the Deity to this Kesavaji Gaudiya Matha, and I made my place in Vrndavana. Gargamuni: You had such a hard struggle in the beginning. Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Gargamuni: Because that place, I saw in the photo, everything was there. Nice big sign. Prabhupada: It was a very good place. This Prabhakara helped me. Ninety percent was… But if I did not leave, nobody could drive me, that was a fact. But I thought “Who is going to…, for litigation? She is the governor’s wife, and she is pressing through collectors, through…” The manager who was in charge, he had some cinema house. So they had to renew the license, cinema house. And the collector pressed him that “Unless you arrange for this house, we are not going to renew your license.” I thought, “Unnecessarily this man will be in trouble. I’ll have to pay so many rupees, and she is governor’s wife.” And that lady came to me in Bombay several times. “You take my press. You have got so many publications.” So I said “I can take your press. I have got money. But what shall I do with it? It is letter press. Now printing is done by offset.” That press, Associated Press, is very good press. It was… They got so many government contracts. The whole telephone guides were printed there. But because it is letterset press, it is costly. The government got offset press, cheaper price. So that contract was cancelled. So for her nefarious activity she is punished. Her husband died. She has no more importance, and she was one of the trustees of Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan. So she was exempted. Now she’s an ordinary woman. Press is not working. Gargamuni: All they have is that Bhavan’s Journal. Prabhupada: Yes. Gargamuni: Nobody reads that. Jayapataka: You say she was kicked out from the trusteeship. She’s not part of that any more. Prabhupada: Yes. The other trustees said that “You are simply spending. What you are doing?” After all, when she was wife of the governor she had some prestige. Otherwise… She invited me in that Juhu, she has got a house in Juhu. So I told her, “Yes, I can purchase your press. Fifty lakhs is not a very big amount for me, but what shall I do? We are printing offset.” That is the cause… Because nowadays printing is done by offset press, she lost all business. People got big, big contract, they got cheaper and better quality. Why they should stick to that press? And government contract was taken from them, big, huge business they lost. Tata Press, they have got offset. Government transferred there. And that was her main support. It was a nice, good press. Practically best press in Bombay, Associated Press. But because it is letter press… Now to maintain the letter press is very costly. Gargamuni: Yes. You have to get new type every year, and that is very costly. Prabhupada: Nowadays there is no need of letters, I mean to say… Jayapataka: Type. Prabhupada: Type. [break] Gargamuni: …on all the equipment. Prabhupada: Yes. Gargamuni: That is not so much for the amount of books that they have been able to produce in such a short time. Prabhupada: We can produce one book daily, the machines are so expert. Jayapataka: They do outside work as well? Gargamuni: What for? We have unlimited… Prabhupada: Why? Botheration. You have to satisfy your customer, waste time. We keep our machine for our own work. Gargamuni: We have so many books. As soon as we print a new book, the previous book is out of print. We have to print again. Prabhupada: The first machine introduced by you, yes. Gargamuni: Oh, the mimeograph. (laughs) Prabhupada: Then other machines came. I did not know, but I was thinking that if some typist would hear my tapes and type, I was thinking like that. Expert typist. Formerly, it was being done like that. Here, tape recorder. You hear something and then type. Like that. And this machine, you shall, it is, automatically, you hear and type, hear and type. Jayapataka: This is made for that. Prabhupada: Yes. This is the advancement on that idea, dictaphone. Telephone. And the dictation of the author. He’s hearing and typing. Nowadays everyone is using. The doctors dictate prescription. The doctor, instead of sending note, he dictates for such and such patient, “He should receive this, take like that…” That is recorded. Another, another, and immediately taken and the compounder hears and… No writing. Jayapataka: Actually you are dictating the prescription for the whole world. Prabhupada: Yes. Bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-’bhiramat. And prescription is so sweet it pleases the ear and the heart. That is stated in the Bhagavata. Bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-’bhiramat. It is medicine for this material disease. At the same time it is so pleasing to the ear and the heart. This is the very word. Bhavausadhac chrotra. Srotra means aural. Srotra-manah, and mind. Mano ’bhiramat. Abhirama, pleasing. Jayapataka: After rainy season you’ll be coming to Mayapura then? Prabhupada: Yes. Jayapataka: We’ll write when the weather improves. We’ll write when the rains cease. Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
August 21, 1976, Hyderabad