Morning Walk Conversation Caranaravindam: …Krsna. So how are we to understand the name of the spiritual master. In kirtana when we chant the name of the spiritual master, is that as spiritually potent? Lokanatha: You have to understand the position of Vaisnava. Vaisnava’s position is far far greater than the demigods. Demigods, they shower flowers on the Vaisnavas. So they are very exalted personalities, especially the spiritual master. There’s no comparison of the spiritual master with any entities in the universe or brahmanda. As Prabhupada’s purport has said many places: “The spiritual master is the external manifestation of the Supersoul, Paramatma within your heart.” Paramatma is Ksirodakasayi Visnu, and He becomes manifest before you in form of a guru or spiritual master. So you cannot compare a spiritual master or guru with any other… Prabhupada: No, his question is why the demigods… Just like Lord Brahma, he is the original spiritual master. So why the demigods should not be equal to the spiritual master. That is his question. Is it not? Caranaravindam: Yes. Lokanatha: They are not equal to the spiritual master. Prabhupada: Why? That is his question. Lokanatha: As you are explaining in your scriptures that the spiritual master is Paramatma externally manifested but do not in case of other demigods. Prabhupada: Why the spiritual master is given so exalted position than the demigods? That should be the answer. Demigods, they are also Vaisnava, mostly. Lokanatha: They are not pure devotees. Prabhupada: They are also devotees. Lokanatha: But their devotion is mixed devotion. Prabhupada: No. Just like Lord Brahma. We belong to the Brahma-sampradaya. Brahma is the original spiritual master after Krsna. Brahma, then Narada, then Vyasadeva—like that. So all of them are gurus, acaryas. So why spiritual master is honored as good as the Supreme Lord? Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastraih. Why? That should be his question: Why spiritual master is given the supreme post than all others? Saksad-dharitvena—as good as God. Why? Is it not? It is clear, his question. First of all, is this his question? Caranaravindam: Yes, this is the question. Prabhupada: So what is the answer? Lokanatha: The spiritual master is very much concerned about our personal welfare. They are the present acaryas in the parampara… Prabhupada: He gives direct knowledge of Krsna; therefore he’s as good as Krsna. Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna… Hmm? Hari-sauri: I was just telling him to fan just when there’s flies just to scatter. Prabhupada: You are tired now? No? Indian man: (Hindi) Prabhupada: You can climb on the tree? No. Let me see. (children laughing) It is better than that path. Hari-sauri: This one? Prabhupada: Yes. It is not so crowded. That path is very crowded. [break] Lokanatha: …five thousand years back, until now, there’s only thirty acaryas… Prabhupada: Chain is broken when there are false spiritual masters. Otherwise it is not broken. Chain is broken if a so-called spiritual master speaks something manufactured. Then the chain is broken. Otherwise chain is not broken. Devotee: (indistinct) Prabhupada: No, you could not. [break] Uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih kintu prabhor yah priya eva tasya: ** “The spiritual master is as good as God because he’s very dear to Krsna.” He’s preaching Krsna’s mission, and Krsna is very, very pleased with him. Na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah [Bg. 18.69] That is spiritual master’s qualification. He’s trying his best to deliver the soul from these clutches of maya. That is a great service. Therefore he is very dear. One who is chanting or executing devotional service for his personal benefit and one who is trying to deliver others for others’ benefit, there is difference. Caranaravindam: Srila Prabhupada? Isn’t it the case that for some people then when the disciplic succession is lost, because if you’re following a false guru… For example, your teachings now will always be on the planet. There will be other gurus who present some false teaching. So does that mean that for some people the disciplic succession is there and some people it’s not there? If they’re following a false guru does that mean they’ve lost the disciplic succession? Prabhupada: Oh, there is a good boy. Nama? Kapila: Kapila. Prabhupada: Kapila. Oh, Kapiladeva. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
September 2, 1976, New Delhi