Garden Conversation Prabhupada: …of United Nations. (Hindi) …practically they do. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jews, African, and so… Indian man: Real United Nations. Prabhupada: Yes. The real United Nations. Samah sarvesu bhutesu. (Hindi) Krsnotkirtana-gana. Not otherwise. In some place I said that this United Nations… Hari-sauri: Oh, in Melbourne. In Melbourne they put it on the front page. Prabhupada: Melbourne, yes. It was published in the paper, that “It is a dog’s barking association.” (laughter) It was published. Indian man: Published. Hari-sauri: Front page. (laughter) Prabhupada: And he added something, that “Swami is hounding.” Hari-sauri: Yes, the heading was, “His Divine Grace has come here to hound us.” And then the article was Prabhupada describing how the United Nations was a collection of dogs barking. (laughter) Prabhupada: My point was that if you bring some dogs and ask them, “My dear dogs, sit down here peacefully. Don’t bark. Don’t create trouble.” Will they do? Will they do? Indian man: No. Prabhupada: If you keep them dogs, how it is possible they will be peaceful? Indian man: So long as they are dogs it is not possible. Prabhupada: It is not possible. And so long one is in the bodily concept of life, “I am Indian,” “I am American,” “I am this, I am that,” and all of them go to the United Nation assembly… So what is the difference when a dog thinks that “I am dog, I am this dog.” And an American or Indian thinks “I am a…” Where is the difference? So as American, as Indian, as German, as Chinese, if they go there, they remain animal, and how there can be peace? That is not possible. And the peace formula is given by Krsna. Bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram, suhrdam sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 5.29]. When one understands Krsna is suhrdam sarva-bhutanam jnatva mam santim rcchati. That is santim. So if you keep them as Americans, or Indians, or this or that, how there can be peace? Hari-sauri: That was front page. Indian man: (laughs) He’s here to hound us. (laughs) (Hindi) (reading from paper) “His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the founder of the Hare Krsna movement is here to save us from a dog’s life.” (laughter) “He’s here to save us from a dog’s life. For unless we can get some spiritual knowledge, warns His Divine Grace, we are left with a dog mentality.” Hari-sauri: This was the New York Ratha-yatra. This was in New York Times. Indian man: The Ratha-yatra is held on 7th Avenue… (several talking at once) Prabhupada: They admitted: “This is the East and West meeting.” Hari-sauri: “Fifth Avenue: Where East Meets West.” Indian man: “Where East Meets West.” Ah. Hari-sauri: And this one is in South Africa. Prabhupada: Last year we introduced Ratha-yatra in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone, government official, police, public, all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was how many miles? Gopala Krsna: From Washington Square Park… How many miles? At least four or five miles. Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete. From one end to the other. Gopala Krsna: The government had sealed it off. Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Krsna movement. Prabhupada: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement. They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments. Indian man: (Hindi) China? Prabhupada: China. (Hindi) Gopala Krsna: But they like Prabhupada’s books. Russian scholars have praised Prabhupada’s books. I was in Russia two months ago. They have praised Prabhupada’s books very much. Indian man: Sir, what is your opinion about Sai Baba? (laughter) Prabhupada: (Hindi) Jugglery. Indian man: No avatara has declared so far that “I’m avatara.” Prabhupada: He is… What is called avatara? He has no, nothing on the sastra basically. And anyone who has no sastra basics, he’s useless. Yah sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karatah na sa siddhim avapnoti. He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam about this kind of guru. They have been condemned in Srimad-Bhagavatam. I think you’ll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned. [break] Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery. Eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I’ve not seen. Indian man: I don’t know. He does some kind of trick. Prabhupada: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard. Gopala Krsna: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic. Prabhupada: What is that other magic? Generally he… Gopala Krsna: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases and they get cured. Prabhupada: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence. Huh? Hari-sauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, “Oh, you have been in an accident and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left and therefore you were not injured.” Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God. Prabhupada: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he’s so powerful. Indian man: That is very easy. I can also do that. (laughter) I know the trick. Prabhupada: Accha? Gopala Krsna: What is the trick? Indian man: I’ll not tell it to you. (laughter) Prabhupada: No. These tricky things are… They have no… Hari-sauri: Sometimes he conjures up different items in his hand. Like he can conjure up a watch. Or there’s a particular type of nut that is found in Nepal. So some American scientist was trying to get him to… Prabhupada: You have found out that portion? Pradyumna: I’m just, I’m getting… Hari-sauri: They were trying to get him to give some examples. So he refused. Then he produced this nut in his hand. Then he closed his fist and opened it again and the nut was there but this time it had a gold cross attached to it like this. And then he… Prabhupada: Now what is the result of showing these tricks? What is the ultimate result? Indian man: B.N. Sarkar shows much better tricks than that. Prabhupada: Yes. B.N. Sarkar, he was going on cycle in London, busy street and his eyes bound up. Everyone has seen it. He was going on cycle in busy… Ordinary street he was going, and his eyes were bound up. Everyone has seen. Gopala Krsna: The Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University along with some other professors, they decided to do research into all these so-called gods like Sai Baba. There’s another six year old “god” called Bhagavan Sri Krsna. So they sent Sai Baba a questionnaire. He did not reply. Then this Vice Chancellor with a group of professors, they went to this six year old Bhagavan Sri Krsna. He was producing ash with some magic. Prabhupada: Ash? Gopala Krsna: Ash. So all the local, a big crowd would come to see him. So they went and they sat right next to the child. So that day the ash was not produced. So later on the whole thing got exploded and the child’s parents admitted it was bogus. Now that “god” is finished. Bhagavan Sri Krsna. He was six year old Sri Krsna. So this Sai Baba refused to answer the questionnaire. He said, “Why should I respond to these people?” Indian man: He’s angry from that. Gopala Krsna: This group of professors, they’re exposing all these bogus gurus who are saying they are God. Prabhupada: Have you got it? Pradyumna: Yes. acaksur andhasya yathagranih krtas tatha janasyaviduso ’budho guruh tvam arka-drk sarva-drsam samiksano vrto gurur nah sva-gatim bubhutsatam Prabhupada: What is that? Acaksuh? Andhasya. Abudho guru. So andha yathandhair upaniyamanah. They are gurus. They are blind, and they are guru for blind men. Abudho guru. These have been described in Srimad-Bhagavatam. If we are to accept guru, so the original guru is Krsna because He instructed Lord Brahma, the first living creature within this universe. Tene brahma hrda ya adi-kavaye. He instructed the adi-kavi. He is the guru, Krsna. And in the Bhagavad-gita He also says, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. So He is adi-guru. In Bhagavad-gita also He is instructing Arjuna. He is adi-guru. So instead of this tricky, jugglery guru, why not people approach Krsna? Therefore acaksur andha. (Hindi) Read this verse again. Pradyumna: Acaksur andhasya yathagranih krtas tatha janasyaviduso ’budho guruh. Prabhupada: Ah. Avidusah abudho guruh. (Hindi) You can bring something… (Hindi) If things are very easy, why they go round about way? Bhagavan svayam (Hindi), man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg. 18.65]. (Hindi for some time) I went to see the Ramakrishna Mission head, Prabodhananda Swami. So just by seeing me, he immediately said that Thakur was formerly Gaura Hari. Indian man: What Swamiji? Gaudiya? Gaura Hari. Prabhupada: Gaura Hari. (Hindi) Prabhupada: Ramakrishna Thakur, Thakur Rama… He was formerly Gaursundara. Gaurasundara (Hindi to end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
September 7, 1976, Vrndavana