Room Conversation Tamala Krsna: Just writing some notes. I was remembering the discussion we had, all of your disciples and you, when we were considering whether we should go to Vrndavana or not, how we were all giving different arguments, one side or the other. So I was remembering how… I was just writing down some of the different arguments. Then we all concluded that the best program was to come to Vrndavana. And now I can see that it was the right conclusion, because I feel that we are at home. Here it is home. Krsna and Balarama are here. Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna: Did you have a nice rest? I think so. I think you rested for about three hours in a row just now. Prabhupada: Three hours? Tamala Krsna: Yes. It’s a nearly quarter to one. You were very tired from the trip. [break] I’ve heard it said that when great personalities arrive, everything is always cleansed. So I see that upon your coming, everything is cleansed by Krsna sending all of this rain. The atmosphere becomes cool, and the sound of the rain is also very pleasing. Prabhupada: And there is sun? Sun also was there? Tamala Krsna: The sunshine? There was sunshine when we arrived, but now it is cloudy and rain. I was wondering, Srila Prabhupada, whether you would like for the kaviraja to be called. I was thinking he might be called tomorrow. Today no need for him to come. Better that you mostly relax today. I was thinking that as you said, better or worse, some husband must be there. (Prabhupada laughs) So we should have some doctor. Is that all right? It’s so nice to be with you when you are in Vrndavana. Prabhupada: So you can do the needful. Tamala Krsna: Do the needful? Prabhupada: (Prabhupada’s voice is very weak and low now) Yes, you all consider. Is that all right? Tamala Krsna: In what regard, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: In every regard. Hari-sauri: Everything. Every regard. Tamala Krsna: Oh, yes. All you have to do is think of Krsna and Balarama. Prabhupada: Yes. Give me that chance, and rest you’ll do. Hari-sauri: Darsana and rest. Tamala Krsna: “Give me that chance.” Hari-sauri: Oh. Prabhupada: Is that all right? Hari-sauri: Yes. Prabhupada: Gurukrpa will also remain here. Tamala Krsna: Gurukrpa should also remain here. Yes. Actually he is quite… He’s quite devoted to Krsna-Balarama as well as to Your Divine Grace. He likes the two brothers very much. Prabhupada: Very good. Tamala Krsna: Sometimes he likes to go out to collect for Them. Is that all right? Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna: So starting tomorrow, we will go in front of Krsna- Balarama for a half hour every day? Prabhupada: Or less time. Tamala Krsna: Or less time. As you feel comfortable. Prabhupada: Let us try. Tamala Krsna: Yes. Maybe Baladeva will give you the strength to sit for a half hour there. [break] …comfortable in here? This new bed is all right? It is a jumbo size, very big size bed. Prabhupada: Where is Visvambhara? Tamala Krsna: Well actually, I’m going to call him now. I wanted you to, you know, wake up, because I didn’t want to have him wait so long. So I thought better to let you rest. Now I can call him? Hari-sauri: Does Prabhupada want that moved down there? Tamala Krsna: You could find out. He might want to also have a quick sponge bath. He hasn’t bathed since the trip. Yes, I think we ought to give him a sponge bath. (aside:) You want to… [break] Bhagatji: …slow, due to the difficulty of cement. Cement was the problem. But we have store now full. Gate will be finished within this month, one gate. The other gate will begin after finishing this. Tamala Krsna: That gate looks very good, Srila Prabhupada. Bhaktivedanta Swami gate, Bhaktivedanta Swami Marg, Bhaktivedanta Swami Gurukula. Bhagatji: (laughs) Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, this is Krsna-Balarama’s garland, tulasi garland. Fragrant. Upendra: Would you like to go back into sitting up here, Srila Prabhupada? It’s more comfortable. (pause) [break] Bhagatji: (Hindi) For eleven days it stopped, and then from since last two days it has again become. Prabhupada: And rate have been…? Bhagatji: The rate of the grain has gone so high. Last year the rate of wheat was forty rupees; this year, seventy-eight rupees. Gram [flour] fifty rupees; this year, eighty rupees. And, Srila Prabhupada, that everything has gone so high. Yaba, this barley, was thirty rupees; this year, fifty rupees at present. And it is only up to April. And new rate will be coming in the month of April. So this means after seven months. Brahmananda: Why is it so high? Bhagatji: The rains have destroyed all crops. Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, do you want tilaka? Bhagatji: From Delhi, only day before yesterday the road was clear. Again it is raining. Delhi to Mathura, that road. Brahmananda: The road is clear? Bhagatji: Because it was blocked. Hari-sauri: It was blocked. Yesterday they got through, but only just. The day before it was blocked. Now today again it’s raining. Prabhupada: The buses stopped? Bhagatji: Buses stopped, Prabhupada, taxis stopped. Only they are allowing some cars to go. Yesterday only car could go. Tamala Krsna: But the planes were on strike. The planes were not going either. In Bombay no planes were leaving. We were lucky to get the first-class train. Hari-sauri: The road is very bad though, anyway. It wouldn’t have been passable, not for Srila Prabhupada. Tamala Krsna: It would have taken three to four hours to go by car from Delhi in this condition. And bumpy. The train journey was not so bad, I think, not so bad. The weather was nice. Prabhupada: (indistinct) [break] …water for drinking? Tamala Krsna: Yes. Upendra Prabhu? Is there a drink for Prabhupada? Hari-sauri: Mung jal is ready. Tamala Krsna: It’s ready. Yes, we prepared mung water. Pranava’s wife, she was cooking with Kuladri today. She prepared two things, mung jal and the water from spinach. So that’s supposed to be very good also. Would you like to try? Pranava said that the feature of the spinach water is that it’s very good for strength and very easily digestible. That’s what he said. You might like to try something of both. Prabhupada: There is fresh milk? Half water, half milk. Tamala Krsna: Right now would you like to have some mung water? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: Mung water. And spinach water? Prabhupada: Little, little. Tamala Krsna: Okay. And milk we’ll keep ready for whenever you want. We have some milk? Bhagatji: Any cow. Tamala Krsna: Black cow. Bhagatji: We will keep one cow ready Tamala Krsna: Oh, all the time. One cow. Bhagatji says one cow will be kept ready all the time, so when you say you want milk, immediately they will go and milk this cow. (chuckling) Prabhupada: Hm. (pause) That’s all right. You can… Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. We’ll go and take our lunch now? Er, Srila Prabhupada? Now you’ll be taking mung water, so in about a couple of hours would you like to try some milk? Okay. So we’ll take leave now, Srila Prabhupada, take our meal. Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [break] (reading:) kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa abhira-sumbha yavanah khasadayah ye ’nye ca papa yad-apasrayasrayah sudhyanti tasmai prabhavisnave namah Prabhupada: Where is beginning? Tamala Krsna: Where is the beginning? Prabhupada: That chapter? Tamala Krsna: These are prayers offered by Sukadeva Gosvami. Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: You want to know what the first prayer is? Prabhupada: Hm. Go on reading. Tamala Krsna: sri-suka uvaca namah parasmai purusaya bhuyase sad-udbhava-sthana-nirodha-lilaya grhita-sakti-tritayaya dehinam antarbhavayanupalaksya-vartmane “Sukadeva Gosvami said…” Prabhupada: Read slowly but correctly. Tamala Krsna: Okay. (repeats verse slower and correctly) “Sukadeva Gosvami said: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who, for the creation of the material world, accepts the three modes of nature. He is the complete whole residing within the body of everyone, and His ways are inconceivable.” Bhuyo namah sad-vrjina-cchide ’satam. Prabhupada: Purport. Tamala Krsna: Purport. This material world is a manifestation of the three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and the Supreme Lord, for the creation, maintenance and destruction of the material world, accepts three predominating forms as Brahma, Visnu and Sankara (Siva). As Visnu He enters into every body materially created. As Garbhodakasayi Visnu He enters into every universe, and as Ksirodakasayi Visnu He enters the body of every living being. Lord Sri Krsna, being the origin of all visnu-tattvas, is addressed here as parah puman, or Purusottama, as described in the Bhagavad-gita (15.18). He is the complete whole. The purusavataras are therefore His plenary expansions. Bhakti-yoga is the only process by which one can become competent to know Him. Because the empiric philosophers and mystic yogis cannot conceive of the Personality of Godhead, He is called anupalaksya-vartmane, the Lord of the inconceivable way, or bhakti-yoga. Bhag. 2.4.13; bhuyo namah sad-vrjina-cchide ’satam asambhavayakhila-sattva-murtaye pumsam punah paramahamsya asrame vyavasthitanam anumrgya-dasuse Translation: I again offer my respectful obeisances unto the form of complete existence and transcendence, who is the liberator of the pious devotees from all distresses and the destroyer of the further advances in atheistic temperament of the nondevotee-demons. For the transcendentalists who are situated in the topmost spiritual perfection, He grants their specific destinations. (Bell rings). Prabhupada: What is the time now? Tamala Krsna: Time is now five minutes to four o’clock. Prabhupada: What is that bell? Tamala Krsna: That bell? It didn’t ring four times earlier. (discusses with Upendra) Yeah, there is a bell in the front of the temple which people sometimes ring as they enter. Do you want to hear the purport to this verse? Yes? Purport. There are two sides of the transcendental manifestations of the Supreme Lord, Sri Krsna. For the pure devotees He is the constant companion, as in the case of His becoming one of the family members of the Yadu dynasty, or His becoming the friend of Arjuna, or His becoming the associate neighbor of the inhabitants of Vrndavana, as the son of Nanda- Yasoda, the friend of Sudama, Sridama and Madhumangala, or the lover of the damsels of Vrajabhumi, etc. That is part of His personal features. And by His impersonal feature He expands the rays of the brahmajyoti, which is limitless and all-pervasive. Part of this all- pervasive brahmajyoti, which is compared to the sun rays, is covered by the darkness of the mahat-tattva, and this insignificant part is known as the material world. In this material world there are innumerable universes like the one we can experience, and in each of them there are hundreds of thousands of planets like the one we are inhabiting. The mundaners are more or less captivated by the unlimited expansion of the rays of the Lord, but the devotees are concerned more with His personal form, from which everything is emanating (janmady asya yatah [Bhag. 1.1.1]). As the sun rays are concentrated in the sun disc, the brahmajyoti is concentrated in Goloka Vrndavana, the topmost spiritual planet in the spiritual sky. The immeasurable spiritual sky is full of spiritual planets, named Vaikunthas, far beyond the material sky. The mundaners have insufficient information of even the mundane sky, so what can they think of the spiritual sky? Therefore the mundaners are always far, far away from Him. Even if in the future they are able to manufacture some machine whose speed may be accelerated to the velocity of the wind or mind, the mundaners will still be unable to imagine reaching the planets in the spiritual sky. So the Lord and His residential abode will always remain a myth or a mysterious problem, but for the devotees the Lord will always be available as an associate. In the spiritual sky His opulence is immeasurable. The Lord resides in all the spiritual planets, the innumerable Vaikuntha planets, by expanding His plenary portions along with His liberated devotee associates, but the impersonalists who want to merge in the existence of the Lord are allowed to merge as one of the spiritual sparks of the brahmajyoti. They have no qualifications for becoming associates of the Lord either in the Vaikuntha planets or in the supreme planet, Goloka Vrndavana, described in the Bhagavad-gita as mad-dhama and here in this verse as the sva-dhama of the Lord. This mad-dhama or sva-dhama is described in the Bhagavad-gita (15.6) as follows: na tad bhasayate suryo na sasanko na pavakah yad gatva na nivartante tad dhama paramam mama The Lord’s sva-dhama does not require any sunlight or moonlight or electricity for illumination. That dhama, or place, is supreme, and whoever goes there never comes back to this material world. The Vaikuntha planets and the Goloka Vrndavana planet are all self- illuminating, and the rays scattered by those sva-dhama of the Lord constitute the existence of the brahmajyoti. As further confirmed in the Vedas like the Mundaka (2.2.10), Katha (2.2.15) and Svetasvatara Upanisads (6.14): na tatra suryo bhati na candra-tarakam nema vidyuto bhanti kuto ’yam agnih tam eva bhantam anu bhati sarvam tasya bhasa sarvam idam vibhati In the sva-dhama of the Lord there is no need of sun, moon or stars for illumination. Nor is there need of electricity, so what to speak of ignited lamps? On the other hand, it is because those planets are self-illuminating that all effulgence has become possible, and whatever there is that is dazzling is due to the reflection of that sva-dhama. One who is dazzled by the effulgence of the impersonal brahmajyoti cannot know the personal transcendence; therefore in the Isopanisad (15) it is prayed that the Lord shift His dazzling effulgence so that the devotee can see the real reality. It is spoken thus: hiranmayena patrena satyasyapihitam mukham tat tvam pusann apavrnu satya-dharmaya drstaye “O Lord, You are the maintainer of everything, both material and spiritual, and everything flourishes by Your mercy. Your devotional service, or bhakti-yoga, is the actual principle of religion, satya-dharma, and I am engaged in that service. So kindly protect me by showing Your real face. Please, therefore, remove the veil of Your brahmajyoti rays so that I can see Your form of eternal bliss and knowledge.” [break] Hari-sauri: …reminding them that the caukidara wasn’t ringing the bell until it became established. Brahmananda: It’s been going on for years. Prabhupada: After my departure they stopped this? You may take. Where is Aksayananda? [break] (bell rings) Tamala Krsna: Hari-sauri? Srila Prabhupada, they just rang the bell now. Prabhupada: He is going… Tamala Krsna: That was the half-hour bell. Before was the four o’clock. Prabhupada: Oh. Oh, this is half hour? Tamala Krsna: Yes. Hari-sauri? [break] It’s starting to get darker early. Sun is setting earlier now, I think, than it was when we were last here. [break] …to see that things are going on. Prabhupada: The leaders are… Similarly, leaders of this temple, they will have to organize. Tamala Krsna: Hm? No, we’re able to see these things are going on. Prabhupada: But you never inquire. Tamala Krsna: Well, the bell went off on time. Prabhupada: What kind of ringing was going on? If it is going on whimsically, then that is not very good. I don’t think I have seen Aksayananda from the morning. Brahmananda: He was here. When you arrived into your room he came. He was sitting in the room. Hari-sauri: He was driving your car from Mathura. Tamala Krsna: And he was also here when Bhagatji came. Prabhupada: He came? Tamala Krsna Hari-sauri: Yes. Prabhupada: That is my concern, that such huge, huge establishment, if properly, regularly not managed, then again everything will be finished. Tamala Krsna: I don’t think that that’s going to happen, Srila Prabhupada. We’re too much indebted to you to allow what you have established to become spoiled. Prabhupada: Please see to that. Tamala Krsna: Yes, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: In this condition it is impossible for me. Tamala Krsna: All you should have to do is just think about Krsna and Balarama. Prabhupada: Yes. Kindly give me that chance. Brahmananda: (to a devotee:) “Kindly give me that chance.” Prabhupada: In this condition, even I cannot move my body on the bed. Only chance you should give me—let me die little peacefully, without any anxiety. I have given in writing everything, whatever you wanted—my will, my executive(?) power, everything. Disaster will happen if you cannot manage it. Hm? Tamala Krsna: Yes, we do not want any disaster to happen. Our only business as your sons and servants is to maintain what you have established. Even if we don’t increase it, if we just maintain it… Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: That’ll be… You’ve done so much. If it’s even maintained, it will be a great credit. We shall be proud if people will say that “These young men are fit sons of their Guru Maharaja.” That would be our great pride if people will say that of us, that “They were worthy sons of their Guru Maharaja.” [break] Prabhupada: I must thank you that you took me to London and again brought me without any difficulties. That’s a great credit for you. That I am thanking you, that in this condition, a bundle of bones, you did it. Krsna will… Yesterday I saw that Central Station, Bombay, so much crowded. Unexpectedly. Is it not remarkable? Tamala Krsna: Yes. Prabhupada: Because they have introduced this train. Twenty-four hours this Deluxe train is running. Tamala Krsna: There’s a train that’s even faster, called the Rajdhani. Seventeen hours. Brahmananda: Also there was air strike. So people who would normally take airplane, they’re taking train. Tamala Krsna: Giriraja made one life member aboard the train, a very nice gentleman living on Marine Drive, quite wealthy. He says he never takes the train, only flies. But he went to the airport at four o’clock, and the airport said, “We have no flights. All flights cancelled.” They didn’t even give the courtesy to call up the people to tell them the flight was cancelled, although they had the telephone numbers of the ticket purchasers. So the man had to take the train. Prabhupada: The strike instrument invented by modern civilization, so dangerous. Hari-sauri: Means the government becomes completely controlled by the lowest working class. Prabhupada: Naturally. Without hands and legs, how one can function? Therefore Vedic civilization, that everyone is engaged. Tamala Krsna: Yes. Just like in our temples. Everyone is engaged in some service. We don’t reject anyone. Prabhupada: No. The system should be made in such a way that everyone is engaged. Hari-sauri: With these farms that is very easy to do. No unemployment. Everybody can work. Next to our farm in Australia there is one man. He has five hundred acres of land, but he sends his wife out to work because he’s so lazy, he does not work the land. Simply they put some cows there to become fat and then kill them. He has five hundred acres of land. [break] Prabhupada: Husband does not do. Hari-sauri: This is the modern disease. Everyone is so lazy. You have always pointed out that there is so much land unused. Now no one wants to work. It is much simpler for them to go and work for eight hours a day in some office and get some bits of paper money and then buy from the grocery store. Brahmananda: Or even if they’re farmers, all they do is just graze cows. And they don’t do any work. They just have the cows eat, and then they sell them. Prabhupada: And maintain slaughterhouse, eh? Brahmananda: Yes. Prabhupada: So you have kirtana now? Tamala Krsna: Yes, Prabhupada. I’ll bring the little… [break] …that the bells are being rung on time, on the hour and half hour. Prabhupada: It is going on? Aksayananda: Oh, yes. Everything’s going on nicely, Prabhupada. Prabhupada: So the bank has dispatched them, no? Tamala Krsna: Has the bank dispatched those two deposits? I wrote you one letter. You received that? Aksayananda: I only got that letter. The bank was away, and now you have come, I’ll send them. Tamala Krsna: The bank was away? Aksayananda: The bank was not here on that day. I could not check it yet. The letter only came, and today is Sunday. Tamala Krsna: Tomorrow, first thing, Prabhupada. Aksayananda: Tomorrow, first thing, I’ll check it. Tamala Krsna: The deposits were due on the 25th and on the 30th. They became matured. So one should have been dispatched on the 25th and the other should have been dispatched on the 30th. Prabhupada: No, the letter came so late? Aksayananda: It came. The day it came, the bank was on strike. Next day we received notice you were coming, and we had to rush and get a chair for you and make arrangements. Unfortunately that was the only day I could not go there. It came late. First thing tomorrow, we’ll go. Prabhupada: You have got that letter? Aksayananda: I have it. Prabhupada: No, their letter… Tamala Krsna: Not only one copy. I have two copies. Prabhupada: Where is that letter? Tamala Krsna: I have them… It’s attached in that file with the fixed deposit receipts. Prabhupada: What it is written there? Tamala Krsna: It gives them specific instruction to immediately transfer these two fixed deposits on the date of maturity to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Bank, north branch, to the account of Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Prabhupada: No. What do they say? Tamala Krsna: And they also acknowledge having received it, having received the two fixed deposit receipts. The bank manager stamped it, dated it, signature. We gave them the receipts signed, so they acknowledged having received it. Prabhupada: But they have not issued any letter, “Yes, it will be done”? Tamala Krsna: Well, their acknowledgement of the letter should constitute that. I got them to acknowledge that they received the original. The fact that they would take the receipt of the fixed deposits indicates that they have to do the needful, as we have instructed them. And I have no doubt that they will do that. When they came to see you, they accepted that they would have to do that, because the money was sent to them, the four lakhs. Prabhupada: So other banking business going on? Huh? Aksayananda: Generally everything is all right, yes. Tamala Krsna: Bank is giving good service? Aksayananda: Yes. It’s all right. Prabhupada: Go on. [break] Tamala Krsna: …no greater honor than to be called your son, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: Where is that Dr. Sharma? Tamala Krsna: Dr. Sharma. Oh, yes. Where is he? He’s here. Did that milk give you any mucus, Srila Prabhupada? Prabhupada: No. Tamala Krsna: That’s good. Prabhupada: It is very, very good. Tamala Krsna: Really fresh. Prabhupada: If I drink this milk twice, morning and evening, I think I can avoid any food. Tamala Krsna: You can what? Prabhupada: Avoid any food. Tamala Krsna: You don’t like fruit juice? Prabhupada: I mean to say, I can drink in the meantime, but by simply drinking this milk, I can live healthy. I think so. Tamala Krsna: The saintly persons in the past did adopt that policy. They were living simply on milk. Are you feeling all right? Prabhupada: Yes. Tamala Krsna: You are happy to be in Vrndavana, I think. You look very natural, being in Vrndavana, Srila Prabhupada. Prabhupada: That’s all. [break] Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada said scratch hard. [break] The other train? Punjab Mail? Frontier Mail? Oh, Rajdhani. Rajdhani Express? Prabhupada: That is from Calcutta? Tamala Krsna: There’s two. One comes from Calcutta, between Calcutta and Delhi, and the other goes Bombay-Delhi and Delhi- Bombay. Both of them take about seventeen or eighteen hours. The one going from Calcutta stops only once, Srila Prabhupada, in Kanpur, I think. Between Calcutta and Delhi it makes one stop at Kanpur. That’s all. It’s all air-conditioned. Prabhupada: And the other? Tamala Krsna: The other one stops once, I guess, but I’m not certain of the place. Between here and Bombay it makes one stop, so far I know. I’m not sure what is that stop. They’re very popular trains. They run only about twice a week. But the train we were on was quite quick also. But not so quick as this. The train we were on took about twenty-two hours, Bombay-Delhi. But Rajdhani, I think, takes seventeen. It’s about five hours faster. Prabhupada: They are also very fast. No? Tamala Krsna: That one we were on? Prabhupada: Hm. Tamala Krsna: Yes, it was very good. And it was very much on time. (end)
with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
October 2, 1977, Vrndavana